UKA British Fell & Hill Relays

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I've just got a few observations here and I wondered what others thought. Please bear in mind this is based on my limited 5 or 6 years of these relays so I stand to be corrected.

1. This year the stats look quite challenging. Of course when the venue is Llanberis that is likely to mean a bit more ascent than the other recent venues, but the legs are also a little longer. So we have approx 20% more climb and 10% more distance than recent years.
Time spreads
Church Stretton 2012 were 3:16 - 6:56
Kettlewell 2011 were 3:23 - 7:00
Lomonds of Fife were 3:50 - 7:54
Ennerdale were 3:29 - 7:03

There's no predicted leg times that I can see on the event website, but looking at the stats I'd have thought any team getting in under 4 hours won't be far off winning.
I'd go as far as to say I think the winning time may be outside of the 4 hour barrier.

2. If I'm close on point 1, then that means that we will have a spread up to 8 hours this year as the slowest teams are usually twice the time of the winning team.
However we have the 3 HOUR Cut off at the end of Leg 2.
I can see this catching a lot, possibly 25% of the teams that are involved.
If you consider that last year around 10% of the leg 1 runners were outside 1 hour and 15% of Leg 2 runners outside of 2 hours and around 10% of the teams involved finished leg 2 outside of 3 hours.

This is definitely a more challenging route.

So should there be a cut-off at 3 hours? Surely it would be better to have a leg 3 mass start at 3 hours and perhaps a leg 4 mass start at 4:30?
That's got to be preferable to having up to 150 runners unable to have their run.

As I say above, I might be missing something as I'm just looking at the stats for the legs and I've never raced in the area, just watched a few races.

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I think leg 1 is short.. so surprised if many get cut off.. agree mass start.. seems a petty for people not to make a day of it.. but marshals may have to move.. I dont know.

I don't think it looks overly tough. Look at the eilio race sub 1 hour record.. and thats the terrain.. it is fast runnable terrain for much of it.. ok some steep walks..

Would be very surprised if that was over 4 hours.. leg 2 is basically the eilio race route in reverse.. leg 1 short.. leg 4 up and down eilio good running.. no idea 3 but would guess 20-25 for leg 1, sub 1:10 for leg 2?, leg 4 comfortably sub 1 hour. leaving a good 1:30 for leg 3..

Wasnt CD's old training run war memorial > eilio > war memorial under 1 hour.. so leg 4 is less than that.. in a race environment...

leg 1 is 4.8 mile so 20-25 mins? That would be impressive on a flat road.
Leg 2 9 mile/3280ft - that makes me think Fairfield ish. 80 mins + for the front end?
So I'd guess 1:50 at the front end, if that's the case it will be around 3:40 at the back after 2 legs.
I fully understand about marshalls which is why I asked about a mass start for leg 3.

Anyway Iain, you know the area, I don't. Perhaps the stats don't quite reflect the pace of the terrain.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

leg 1 is 4.8 mile so 20-25 mins? That would be impressive on a flat road.
Leg 2 9 mile/3280ft - that makes me think Fairfield ish. 80 mins + for the front end?
So I'd guess 1:50 at the front end, if that's the case it will be around 3:40 at the back after 2 legs.
I fully understand about marshalls which is why I asked about a mass start for leg 3.

Anyway Iain, you know the area, I don't. Perhaps the stats don't quite reflect the pace of the terrain.

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well wrong on 1 it just look looked short.. but not many races use that...

But leg 2 is the eilio race.. plus some. the record is 58? and in a competitive race environment.. so longer and its a slower route as its up mc.. but I'd be surprised it it was more than 1 min/mile slower..

Can anyone who is familiar with this terrain, give an indication of how 'runnable' leg 1 may be compared to leg 4...For example is there much technical steep descent/ascent, over rough ground in either?

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Originally Posted by stevenh

Can anyone who is familiar with this terrain, give an indication of how 'runnable' leg 1 may be compared to leg 4...For example is there much technical steep descent/ascent, over rough ground in either?

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Leg 1 is very runnable.. surprised its 4.8 miles.. I just guessed around 6km.. but its a steepsih climb initially.. not seen the track for a while so not sure on the state of that bit, but once up its a loop, that terrain isn't superb.. but there a few trods up there so they may use one of the, then a very fast descent on the snowdon marathon descent and then cut through on a narrowish steepish path then back to road.. then cut across on decent trails and along the road back. Leg 1 is more runnable, from after that first k.. and a shorter route.. much less climbing.

Leg 2 is more of a proper fell route.. few if any will run the initial nose.. then many will walk chunks of that whole ridge the summit.. its a fair old drag up.. then fast descent. None of it is technical.

There's no particularly rocky sections, may be the odd bit early round the quarries but not sure on precise route they've taken.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Leg 1 is very runnable.. surprised its 4.8 miles.. I just guessed around 6km.. but its a steepsih climb initially.. not seen the track for a while so not sure on the state of that bit, but once up its a loop, that terrain isn't superb.. but there a few trods up there so they may use one of the, then a very fast descent on the snowdon marathon descent and then cut through on a narrowish steepish path then back to road.. then cut across on decent trails and along the road back. Leg 1 is more runnable, from after that first k.. and a shorter route.. much less climbing.

Leg 2 is more of a proper fell route.. few if any will run the initial nose.. then many will walk chunks of that whole ridge the summit.. its a fair old drag up.. then fast descent. None of it is technical.

There's no particularly rocky sections, may be the odd bit early round the quarries but not sure on precise route they've taken.

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Thank you.

Plenty to get stuck into. I fancy leg 2 myself -great running over those hills.

Just to confirm and to ease concerns, leg 2 cut off will remain at 3 hours but there will be a mass start for remaining leg 3 runners at 1300 hrs, i.e. after 3 hours. So therefore all teams will have a run, which as the above comments state is only fair.

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Originally Posted by RhosgadMath

Just to confirm and to ease concerns, leg 2 cut off will remain at 3 hours but there will be a mass start for remaining leg 3 runners at 1300 hrs, i.e. after 3 hours. So therefore all teams will have a run, which as the above comments state is only fair.

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Good news that Math, thanks for the update.

Agree with Stagger. I hope it won't affect us anyway :)

Good call Math, cheers for that.