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Ha ha, like I said, just playing Devil's Advocate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
I'm with CL on this one though. You can't say that the entrant is wholly responsible and then enforce requirements upon them.
Obviously what I was suggesting entailed some 'Final Destination' like scenes to occur.
The RO highlighting past problems does not erode runner responsibility or increase RO liability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecky
But reinforcing the existence of problems of any kind with examples that prove they are real does increase risk perception which in turn make it safer, without reducing enjoyment or challenge, which should be the goal.
I am not aware of a persistent navigation error location in the waltz or TWA. The waltz in essence follows a ridge. I suspect the greatest potential / confusing area is on and off grasmoor on TWA in clag but I have not heard problems reported there.
There is certainly a pattern at the end of crinkles on langdale by which time the the field can be separated - not least because of route choices there, making loss of contact more likely.
How about:Quote:
You can't say that the entrant is wholly responsible and then enforce requirements upon them.
"The entrant is entirely responsible for. their choice of kit. Thet are also responsible for deciding the date, time, location and route of the race. NS, LK. No toilets, no safety pins."
How about:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mole
"The entrant is responsible for their own safety. You will enounter many hazards, including (but not exclusively) XXX, YYY and ZZZ, in this race and you must accept that there is a real risk of injury or death. Previous incidents in this race resulted in:
- broken bones
- hypothermia
- etc
- etc
If you agree to accept the above risks, we recommend that you carry the following kit : AAA, BBB and CCC but this is at your discretion. We have a duty of care to our volunteers and we will not place them in danger; help may not always be readily available and carrying the above kit would have saved lives in the past."
Are we trying to save lives here or gain the moral high ground. If it's the former, ROs should make people carry kit. If they make it optional some people won't carry it.
It's not about taking the moral high ground, it's about getting people to take responsibility for themselves which, ultimately, will save many more lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
You're actually creating moral hazard by insisting on requirements; people may assume that the RO will take responsibility for them and take excessive risks.
Hang on a sec, I've missed a trick here.
How about compulsory life assurance before you're allowed to race on the fells? There's a friendly financial planner in South Manchester who can secure good rates ;)
That was a pre planned time saving measure that did not improve my race position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecky
Having competed in Mini MM with Dark & White to the Kinder Trial, I can get myself round most routes:-)
Quote:
"Don't think you can follow the leader. Get your compasses out, you will need them. Runners go everywhere in clag on this race, for example from the end of the crinkles where they just seem to go everywhere instead of turning for Pike of Blisco - You have been warned".
Nobody should need to be told this at Langdale! And in clag you can get lost well before the crinkles, especially if you're mindlessly following the crowd!
I actually think we need to go further back than the rules to make the sport safer - maybe go back to something published by Graham Breeze in a past magazine and elswhere - "Fellrunning and the media"! We need to stop selling it as something to 'tick off' or bragg about and the less the sport is falsely glamourised in the media, the better...
Too many don't seem too have any experience (and common sense) BEFORE entering a fell race. Many of us, myself included, have bitten off more than we can chew in a race, but a navigational error for example should result in a red face and an attempt to improve ones navigation skills rather than a safety note to future competitors!
I don't claim to have any answers and am quite grateful that I am no longer on the committe, but maybe rather than quibbling about the exact wording of rules, we need to go back to the roots and develop a culture of self-reliance. In our clubs, amongst our mates, with our juniors, etc...
I doubt ANY rules alone will change peoples perception of what fellrunning is all about, but every fellrunner out there could lead by example!
A club colleague posted yesterday about her experience at the Evesham Half Marathon last weekend.
This was for a race that barely goes above 250' !!
Mandatory Kit
Drink container of 500ml capacity or greater - and at least 500ml of fluid at the start.
Windproof jacket - full sleeved (for Winter races, waterproof is advisable)
Emergency nutrition (gel, energy bar, sweets, etc.)
Head covering (hat, multi-use covering, hood)
Mobile phone, charged
Foil blanket or full-sized bin liner
Whistle
Head / Hand Torch (for any race over 50mi or starting after 4pm)
First aid kit, including
tape (micropore, zinc oxide, flexible, or similar)
plasters
blister plasters
field dressing (absorbent pad w/ a gauze bandage)
Recommended Kit
Trail shoes (road shoes may do if it's dry, but we wouldn't recommend it)
Windproof leg covering for Winter races
They apply their kit regs to all races regardless.