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I wish we were as good as Chelsea! No way did they fluke it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry
Not exactly an inspiring display, but we got through and that's what counts. Look at Holland and Russia... looked great going forward, loads of pace and inventive play, yet they're back home already. At least we're showing some spirit. It won't make up for all our technical failings when we play better teams, but it's better than nowt.
Loved that "tackle" early on when he ended up on the ground in the box and sort of crawled along to attempt to head the ball on the ground off the Ukranian blokes feet. Didn't work, but it put him off a bit! Took a few blasts from the ball too. Good lad.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Think you hit the nail on the head. We're clearly technically behind a lot of the other countries but it's great to see the team showing fighting spirit and working so hard for each other. That's not always seemed to be the case in past tournaments when we're have had teams that were supposed to be better (on paper anyway!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
Aye.. a good togetherness, but I'm still worried by our lack of possession.. Italy have the players to hurt us. Gerrard is working hard, putting good balls in the box, but he's still going for roy of the rovers match winning passes too much.. we give away possession within 3-4 passes constantly playing an unnecessarily hard or long pass.. its like watching kids play at times; making passes when you can't see the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
We've ridden our look, I'd be happier if we looked secure at the back, but we don't. Overall happy enough, think we've hit our minimum requirement so hopefully the players will have no pressure on them now.
So far only Germany scare me. I think Chelsea damaged Spain with what they did to Barca. But those 2 remain stand out the best, but although we're one of the weakest teams in the last 8 I fancy us against anyone else in there..
Agree that England are improving. On occasions last night the crowd went quiet as England were just passing it around, yes we lost possession too much, but it was less obvious than in the other games. Most Ukraine shots were outside the box, from range and easily saved, I honestly think England deserved the victory.
Most one sided game I have ever watched.
Greece are crap and the germans should be 4 up by now.
1-1 How?????
nearly thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
well done germany....
yep, they need to be more mindfull with their defenseQuote:
Originally Posted by biara
I predict a thrilling game of top sportsmanship this evening, with the italians showing their well renowned courage and toughness.
It will however finish 1-1, with England winning on penalties
The Daily Mail will call for John Terry to be knighted
The dads army theme tune will be re-released by The Stone Roses
Penalties, kin swear word:angry:
Justice done. But unlucky England.
Pah! Can't even hit the target! Having a penalty saved is unfortunate, putting it wide, hitting the cross bar is poor!!
Thought we played the first half semi decently but then run out of puff and ideas. If you bring Carroll on you're basically giving up football in favour of a hoof. :thunbdown:
Well that was sobering, completely outplayed. I will say it again, Young was terrible, virtually all tournament. Rooney again fails to deliver in a tournament for his country. All this Gash about doing great getting out the group, feck off its the least we should expect from a group of players we are led to believe are some off the greatest in the world, that plainly is far from the truth. The lack of technical ability and skill to retain possession of the football was embarrassing in comparison to the Italians.
On the plus side we will win our world cup qualifying group easily again... and so it goes on...... We need Jack Wilshere to come in and step upto the plate, hopefully more to come from Ox.... Lescott has came good and maybe alongside cahill or phil young he can develop a good long standing partnership....
All you need to know is posession, posession, posesion - Italy 64% England 36%. you can't score without the ball. If you endlessly give the ball away having made fewer than five passes - you lose. It really is that simple. Did anyone tell ashley Young that he was playing for the team in White?
I don't agree. I think getting to the quarter final and taking it to penalties was probably the best we could have hoped for from this set of players. There was plenty of honest endeavour. I don't think we could have asked for any more effort from them and we certainly weren't humiliated but hard work only takes you so far. They just weren't good enough, end of story.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverand
Listing to the pundits at half time my thoughts were "are they watching the same game I am watching?"
You can't polish a turd..Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverand
Rooney world class for United.. average at best for England.. now he's either over rated... or, for England he isn't getting quality ball from Scholes or Carrick..
How do you seriously expect a forward to look good when their midfield is being dominated. We had less than 40% of possession. The abuse of Rooney is strange, he could be zidane, but until we get a working, fluid midfield nothing will change.
Promising enough. Johnson has learnt to defend. Hart is established. We need new centre halfs. Cahill + Jones or Smalling.
We need a new centre midfield partnership, cleverly, Wiltshire stand out. Ox on the wing. I still think Young has a future despite a poor tournament.
Rooney looks like the landlord from Early DoorsQuote:
Originally Posted by IainR
http://i48.tinypic.com/hv8evn.jpg
Absolutely Iain.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
If you look at how Man U are set up, they are built around the front of the team. They are set up for the front 4 to create, and it's usually Young, Rooney, Welbeck, Valencia but with Nani, and Hernandez able to come in and slot straight in if need be.
As you say they played the first part of the season with Anderson and Cleverly behind them and they were flying. They then played with Scholes and Carrick behind them.
Hodgson clearly was affected by the loss of Wilshire, but he only has himself to blame for not taking Carrick and Cleverly and I would have been on my knees to Scholes had I been in his shoes.
As soon as you saw Milner as the right midfielder, you knew that Young was being asked to do the same job on the left. For Man U he is a player focused 80% on attack, regularly pressing the opposition in their own half.
For England he looked like 80% defence and when not in possession he had to get back in to that line of four camped deep in our own half.
Hodgson set up the team to be solid and hopefully nick a goal like against Ukraine. That negativity was our undoing.
I think we have the players to do better, but I'm not sure Hodgson will set up a team to attack and play with tempo.
We did that in spurts - for the first 30 mins against France, when we went behind against Sweden and for around 20 minutes after Italy hit the post yesterday. That seems to have been despite the system perhaps when adrenaline kicked in.
I got the impression quite early in the game, that England had more than one eye on the penalty shoot-out. I'm surprised Roy didn't have Mr. Creosote on the bench to bring on as a replacement goalie just before the end of extra time.
How come Ronaldo didn't take a penalty :confused:
They messed up the order, he chose to (or was asked to) take the final penalty but by then it was too late! :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf
Same reason Spain had Fabregas going after centre backs...
Surely your best penalty taker only goes 5th if he's too scared to take one of the first 4. Either that or he wanted the 'glory' pen. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiterrainer
Ronaldo's main skill in this match seemed to be in lying on the grass and raising his arm to the referee - oh, and shooting the ball well over the net. He wasn't the only one who lay on the grass - funny how they hide their face when they do this, so we cannot see their expression, which would reveal that they are doing a Murray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf
Despite all the yellow cards/diving/getting blow over by a butterfly, I enjoyed it as a game.
I always enjoy a penalty shoot out - concentrated tension/excitement, and a test of skill. And you know you will get an answer one way or the other in the next few minutes. The expression on Ronaldo's face at the finish made the 90 minutes plus 30 minutes of falling over almost worthwhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry
Brilliant.. the english advising the world on penalties..
So what do we do pack 1-3 with the best takers.. they score.. 4th and 5th sit all nervous.. stand up and miss we go home..
Or you can do what the winning team did and leave an expert penalty taker.. Fabregas.. til last.. score and go to the final. Both teams did the same thing...
strange... you watch great football and get joy from one of the best players in the world not being in the final and being upset by it.. not one of your better posts..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
I thought Young was our third penalty taker and he missed! We never got to our 5th one like Portugal.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Quite a few shootouts end before the 5th shooter, so to me it would seem curious to leave Ronaldo until then. You wouldn't want a central defender taking it either, though, if it came down to it. I would have my best shooters go early - if they score it settles the nerves a bit of the later shooters, and if they miss those later shooters probably won't matter anyway.
The thing I find interesting, and may ask some stat nerd to investigate, is how often the team that misses first goes on to win. You'd think it would be the kiss of death, but I believe Italy (v England), Chelsea (v Bayern) and Bayern (v Madrid) all missed first and won?
Ronaldo's undoubted skill with the ball is more than cancelled out by his arrogance and his cheating - have you forgotten that wink? There was far too much falling over/lying down for that match to be called great football.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
But it is still what Spain did.... Fabregas is a recognized penalty taker. So why make out it was glory seeking...
Answer this: Who would you rather take a penalty? Pique or Fabregas? Fabregas, so Spain also played with the order, their plan worked.. Portugal's didn't so people use it knock Ronaldo... incredulous.
"Asked why the world's most expensive player Ronaldo did not step up to take a penalty, Bento said it had been agreed that the captain would come forward for the final spot kick.
"We had this plan and if it would have been 4-4 and he would taken the last penalty we would be talking in a different way," he said.
Honestly.. wow..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
The wink... it was nothing. Rooney got himself sent off.. the wink was telling the coaches 'didn't I say that would happen?'
But if you think he's arrogance.. ability to step up, to stand up and be counted is cancelled out you live a sad life.
I honestly don't think he dives that much anymore. He's always airborne. For sure. That's why he scored 60 goals this season. Because he didn't miss 15 games with injury. Its pretty simple get airborne, any contact will be minimal. Look at Alonso's lunge on him last night, studs planted that would have been a leg breaker.. he's airborne he dives over the contact, gets caught but its minimal, he plays on..
Racism in football.. match fixing... and you lot would rather get wound up by the guy who is one of the best players in the world right now?
TBH I don't see the arrogance. An arrogant player wouldn't work so hard, look at his fitness, power, strength? The guy works his arse of in training to have those qualities, which when put with his skill enables him to be so effective. I can't think of any other player who has come through with so much raw potential but so many faults to improve season on season for nearly a decade. Look at him in his early days. Too light, held the ball for too long, didn't cross early enough, dived too much, show boated. That all went, all changed. Aye he still does the odd dive, so does Rooney, Cole, Gerrard and young.
But Spain did not do that... so 100% of the teams last night, both with experienced coaches, left one of their, if not their, best penalty taker til last.. Maybe.. just throwing this out their.. Bento and Bosque no more than Danbert... just throwing it out there.. a wild idea for a Thursday.. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry
Ok I got that one wrong.. but by being picky and ignoring the actual point I assume you concede defeat and its actually something both teams did.. if it pays off they are genius's goes wrong and the player called it... look at brave Pirlo.. that penalty, changed the atmosphere. had Hart stood up and caught it would we be calling him arrogant..Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
It's amazing how people's perceptions or views change on such fine margins...
Interestingly Fabregas demanded the last penalty... I hope there's a good few posts condemning him.. but the coach agreed so he was fine with it.
" Aye he still does the odd dive, so does Rooney, Cole, Gerrard and young "
That does not make it right - compare the reactions of rugby/Aussie rules players to that of footballers after being tackled - I'm afraid it ruins many a game for me, and last night was one of them. I agree Ronaldo has improved in this respect, but he is still a frequent offender.
Yes - compared to match fixing and racism diving is a minor issue, but it is still worthy of criticism when it occurs.