Wasdale

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so seeking the opinions of respected and experienced fell runners is not something you would recommend ?
i find your reasoning very negative, unhelpful and defensive... or do you have better reasons behind your judgement of 'if you have to ask you shouldn't be doing it'..which is laughable

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I like your competitive attitude! unfortunately being competitive and no-nonsense can wind up the less competitive types.
I've done Wasdale a few times and its always longer than you think.
Best tips 1) a food/drink drop at Greendale (as you drive up the valley to start)
2) Have your bearings handy cos in a non-champs year you may be alone, if your up there. 3) Eat well 4) Be aware that you've still an hour to go when you get to Sty Head 4) Dont take the wrong path avoiding Esk Hause (easy done) 5) Have clear bearings off Scafell Pike including across to Lingmell Nose.

Assume that you'll be on your feet for 4 hours or more.

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Originally Posted by trilathon

a tough worthwhile challenge but very do-able with the right approach:)

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Exactly, but maybe I was lucky in that it was a champs year and the weather was fine.

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Originally Posted by trilathon

what a daft argument...

.for your info the Coniston Triathlon takes in Coniston Fell Race after having a cold mile swim in lake, then a cycle ride over Wrynose, Hardnott, Birker Fell then a few more climbs before back to Coniston for the run....just about all the triathletes who competed finished quicker than a good proportion of those fell runners who just did the actual fell race on it's own

maybe be you are trying to be well meaning ..but it just looks over precious and negative

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Yes but taking Helvellyn as an example look at the difficulties some triathletes experience and the restrictions the organisers have felt it necessary to place on the fell leg to keep them out of trouble. I've said it before on other threads but I think fell running is about much more than running - its about mountaincraft, navigation, route choice, negotiating steep and unstable ground etc - and this is particularly evident in the long races. So Wasdale and the like are not just difficult in terms of how fit you need to be to beat the cutoffs, they need other skills apart from fitness that take just as long if not longer to gain. Having said that, and going back to your original question my best time for Helvellyn was a little over five hours (with the run taking under two, so you can guess how crap I am at swimming) my best time for Wasdale a little under six, I usually just get through the cutoffs with 10 minutes or so at Gable. I would suggest if you can get round Helvellyn Tri in that time or less you are fit enough to manage Wasdale - assuming you have the other skills. Without wanting to sound too disparaging the run on Helvellyn is a pretty short marked trail run by fell running standards with the exception of the short scrambly bit up Swirral Edge.

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Originally Posted by novice

Geoff I see you have done Kinder Dozen as well – how would you compare the two as they seem to be roughly similar in distance and climbing? Would succeeding on the Dozen in a reasonable time be a good benchmark of success at Wasdale?

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Crikey, that's a tricky question. I don't really know how you can compare a steady plod around Kinder with the toughest race in England (so far as I know).

So, I think the answer to your question has to be "No". Wasdale takes you up some of the biggest, roughest hills in the country whereas Kinder is much kinder.

I'm trying to plan my races and can only do one of the above so if you had to pick one which would you do

Wasdale or Borrowdale?

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Originally Posted by novice

I'm trying to plan my races and can only do one of the above so if you had to pick one which would you do

Wasdale or Borrowdale?

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If you are a novice as the name suggests then i say Borrowdale....its a shorter route and i think hough i may be corrected it is less distant than some of the wasdale roue meaning that if you did get into problems, it may be easier to get off the fell

I'd agree with Tom. Borrowdales a good race, and an easier race than Wasdale which is mammouth. I'd do borrowdale and see how you feel.

Wasdale's classic though, and if yuou've done other classic longs and been OK, I'd not be scared from having ago.

Both recomended so I'd do both at some time anyway so no biggy either way.

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Originally Posted by IainR

I'd agree with Tom. Borrowdales a good race, and an easier race than Wasdale which is mammouth. I'd do borrowdale and see how you feel.

Wasdale's classic though, and if yuou've done other classic longs and been OK, I'd not be scared from having ago.

Both recomended so I'd do both at some time anyway so no biggy either way.

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whey someone agrees with me for once :D

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Originally Posted by novice

I'm trying to plan my races and can only do one of the above so if you had to pick one which would you do

Wasdale or Borrowdale?

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I think Borrowdale is the better race route, never liked that the Wasdale drops back down to valley level but both good races.

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i may be corrected it is less distant than some of the wasdale roue meaning that if you did get into problems, it may be easier to get off the fell

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Its not far to get back to the start of the Wasdale as the route tends to go in a circle around the start rather than a loop like say Ennerdale.

I've had two bad runs at Wasdale ( one truely awful) and one good run at Borrowdale so I know what I think.

More of Borrowdale is runable- less rock?

I just need to go back to Wasdale and have good run!