Re: The FRA and the Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrPatrickBarry
Iain, Is it just a case of the small population. In Ireland (with a bigger population than wales) outside of the summer Leinster League that gets 150 odd per race - 40 runners would be a pretty typical turnout. It is the norm over there and they just accept it.
I don't think so, we have millions, literally, within a few hours, sheffield runners regularly race in the lakes, less often in Snowdonia..
Irelands much more geographically isolated. A few races, e.g. Cader and Wyddfa are rightfully classics, then we have the strangely popular Pen Race, but then our other classics, which should stand up there with the best lakes races just don't get the numbers.
I think thats partly due to fixture clashes, changing race dates, changing routes and shortening routes. The races which are always the same weekend of the same month, the same route, rarely shortened seem to get decent numbers.. e.g. Cader, Moel Eilio, Moelwyns..
The Peris date jumps around each year, a fair few in the field were unhappy this last year, people did travel for it, so I think that affects its popularity. the guy who came 3rd, came down from Northumberland, and he was also unhappy. In fact I only knew one of the top 3, some road runner.. who agreed with it being shortened..
Re: The FRA and the Media
The GB approach is fine in my opinion, at FMR anyway. We seem to be taking good squads and my perception of the comms, back up, team management is that it works. We also have depth of talent and if overall we are down in a particular category one year we seem to have strength in another.
For the Home Nations, we should pick full teams in my opinion when the events are based in the British Isles. I can understand a reluctance when overseas trips are required.
Anyway, we are in danger of hijacking this thread, so I'd best leave it with this :)
Re: The FRA and the Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IainR
I don't think so, we have millions, literally, within a few hours, sheffield runners regularly race in the lakes, less often in Snowdonia..
That is very true, I don't know why but people have a "thing" about the lakes. The lakes would get a lot more walkers than Snowdonia. I always preferred Snowdonia, I think it has much more dramatic mountains.
Re: The FRA and the Media
As a newbie ish to fell running I should be the sort of person that looks to get across to Wales to try a race. Why don't I? I'm not sure really. My only venture over there was for the Relays in the Clwydians a few years ago for the event itself and a couple of recces, as well as a few trips to Snowdon to attend international trials or races with WPette.
The Lakes is certainly more accessible. From Blackburn I'm in Keswick in about the same time as it takes me to get to the Clywdians and that's at the top from where I am. I came back from Llanberis last year and it was 2 hour 15 - if I take the more pleasurable cross country route it's nearer 3 hours.
I can be in the Pentland Hills in that time from here in Lancashire.
So I can have a half day in the Three Peaks area, Sedbergh, Kentmere or Skiddaw with 2 - 3 hours out on the fell and be back and have the afternoon free. It's convenient.
The fell running community in England are mainly based around Lakeland, Lancs and Yorks Pennines down to the Peak district at the southern end and I would guess that approaching 75% of those are in the central pennine area from Helm Hill and Wharfedale down to CLEM, Horwich, Rossendale and CVFR.
So for them it's their home patch, or it tends to be the lakes.
We have many popular races here both short and long. Look at any of the Woodheads, PPP, Anniversary Waltz, Sedbergh Hills, Rivington. Long & Short, races that regularly get 200 - 300.
But we also have those that are just what they are, a great little local race whether in the Lakes or on Darwen Tower where 50 runners is quite OK.
As someone relatively new to fell running - 4 - 5 years in reality, I also get a sense that there is more information out there on the English options and the races have a more open, inviting feel to them.
I've never done Wasdale, Borrowdale, Edale but I already have a feel, an empathy for the races because they are talked about and written about so much.
I haven't got any feeling for the Peris Horseshoe - I don't know where it goes, or how long it is. I just know it's a tough Welsh race in the Snowdonia area.
That may be that we are on the FRA Forum and I get an FRA calendar and Fellrunner magazine ie with an English focus and I am in England after all.
Re: The FRA and the Media
I don't know why the lakes is more popular, it is easier to get to for more people, but that still doesn't explain the discrepency.
The lakes certainly has more history. the guides races, the classic horseshoes, but I must say I think generally Lakeland longs are better than the snowdonia longs. More route choice, less prescripted. Look at the 1000m peaks.. the routes you take are very set, lots of additional checkpoint not just the odd summit. There's a great leg in the Lakes run between scafell and pike o blisco is it? a long remote leg.. real pure fell running.
I also think the lakes races are generally bigger events, maybe that's a bit of a chicken and the egg, but things like the Borrowdale night afterwards.. we have a few big races but haven't provided enough outside of the running yet. North Wales is trying to push itself as an adventure capital, it now has great events, but it needs to sort out trouble and put on runner friendly socials around the races.. not just head to a sticky floored pub, being knocked into by guys hammered, or unable to go out on the street as thugs are punching it out.. then maybe people would be more willing to make weekends of it.. like the Ireland British Champs trip.
Re: The FRA and the Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IainR
I don't know why the lakes is more popular, it is easier to get to for more people, but that still doesn't explain the discrepency.
I also think the lakes races are generally bigger events, maybe that's a bit of a chicken and the egg, but things like the Borrowdale night afterwards.. we have a few big races but haven't provided enough outside of the running yet. North Wales is trying to push itself as an adventure capital, it now has great events, but it needs to sort out trouble and put on runner friendly socials around the races.. not just head to a sticky floored pub, being knocked into by guys hammered, or unable to go out on the street as thugs are punching it out.. then maybe people would be more willing to make weekends of it.. like the Ireland British Champs trip.
There lies the rub certainly in my case
Re: The FRA and the Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IainR
Does it grow in Wales? Fell running in Wales, outside of the short races, doesn't seem to be overly healthy, barely sustainable seems more accurate..
I don't think its the odd race, its the inverse the odd race does OK (short evening races seem to be as popular as any), but the longs and many should be (Foel Fras, Hebog, Carneddau, Garn, Peris etc) classics struggle for numbers and quality..
This year their struggling to field a welsh female team by all accounts...
Outside of fell running there is this thing of some of the Welsh disliking the English. I've raced in Wales twice, and twice got breakfast in cafes in Bala, the most recent trip saw me get a very cold reaction from the cafe manager when i thanked him for my scran; this is a 50% hit rate! It's disappointing because Fleeter has urged me to do Moel Hebog one day, and i'm not sure if i'd dare go into another cafe for breakfast in case it's another redneck.
Re: The FRA and the Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mr brightside
Outside of fell running there is this thing of some of the Welsh disliking the English. I've raced in Wales twice, and twice got breakfast in cafes in Bala, the most recent trip saw me get a very cold reaction from the cafe manager when i thanked him for my scran; this is a 50% hit rate! It's disappointing because Fleeter has urged me to do Moel Hebog one day, and i'm not sure if i'd dare go into another cafe for breakfast in case it's another redneck.
I don't think its anti-english.. you get very small pockets but very much the minority and tbh its more of a generic anti outsider when it is there... but the snowdon race trouble is between locals.. each village seems to blame some other village with deiniolen normally getting fingered as the trouble causers... they had a large police presence a few years ago but the trouble was back last year..
I went to meet my parents for their 35th wedding anniversary that night in the village and had to dodge past police and thugs getting stuck into each other on the vic lawn, this was 7:30 or so... it must really affect the international appeal of the race. It really does put a damper on the day which should show case north wales. Plenty of locals fully support the race, its a massive day out for most of the area, that means much drinking which in north wales especially means fighting..
Generally though, around llanberis you get very little anti-englishness..
Re: The FRA and the Media
Hey, brightside that's all part of the charm!
Re: The FRA and the Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IainR
I don't think its anti-english.. you get very small pockets but very much the minority and tbh its more of a generic anti outsider when it is there... but the snowdon race trouble is between locals.. each village seems to blame some other village with deiniolen normally getting fingered as the trouble causers... they had a large police presence a few years ago but the trouble was back last year..
I went to meet my parents for their 35th wedding anniversary that night in the village and had to dodge past police and thugs getting stuck into each other on the vic lawn, this was 7:30 or so... it must really affect the international appeal of the race. It really does put a damper on the day which should show case north wales. Plenty of locals fully support the race, its a massive day out for most of the area, that means much drinking which in north wales especially means fighting..
Generally though, around llanberis you get very little anti-englishness..
never had any trouble in llanberis/nantperis. Bala is a different matter
