United Utilities land access

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Originally Posted by bigfella

I would like to agree with you about bikes on paths etc but isn't this a slippery slope? if mountain bikers do what they want and think is reasonable then trail/quad bikers will feel free to do likewise and then 4x4s etc.

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that's why ROW laws need a complete overhaul and simplification... it should be just motorised and non-motorised.

Erm, no?

A bike is allowed on a bridleway, a motorised vehicle like a quad, a scrambler bike or a 4x4 isn't, unless it is open access...

I am wondering if one of the posters above who is so adamant that it is the MTB-ers that cause all the damage has actually seen this happen? Are you sure it wasn't motorised scrambler bikes that caused it? I am asking, because I ride my MTB on the open hills of the Black Mountains and Brecon Beacons. I stick to designated MTB routes and bridleways, occasionally linking them with footpaths, where I usually carry (cross bike) or push (MTB). I have a special agreement with most landowners, and this includes the FC and the National Park, that I can ride over their land ON FOOTPATHS... I do not cause any damage. I don't ride when it is so wet that I would but also: when it is so wet that a MTB would cause erosion, the terrain is generally unrideable anyway. However, you could with an engine, i.e. on a scrambler, and would cause the damage described. We have this problem here and I have seen it being done with my own eyes while out running... In fact, I have been appointed by the local ranger to keep an eye out and report perpetrators...

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Originally Posted by bigfella

I would like to agree with you about bikes on paths etc but isn't this a slippery slope? if mountain bikers do what they want and think is reasonable then trail/quad bikers will feel free to do likewise and then 4x4s etc.

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Originally Posted by Hanneke

Erm, no?

A bike is allowed on a bridleway, a motorised vehicle like a quad, a scrambler bike or a 4x4 isn't, unless it is open access...

I am wondering if one of the posters above who is so adamant that it is the MTB-ers that cause all the damage has actually seen this happen? Are you sure it wasn't motorised scrambler bikes that caused it? I am asking, because I ride my MTB on the open hills of the Black Mountains and Brecon Beacons. I stick to designated MTB routes and bridleways, occasionally linking them with footpaths, where I usually carry (cross bike) or push (MTB). I have a special agreement with most landowners, and this includes the FC and the National Park, that I can ride over their land ON FOOTPATHS... I do not cause any damage. I don't ride when it is so wet that I would but also: when it is so wet that a MTB would cause erosion, the terrain is generally unrideable anyway. However, you could with an engine, i.e. on a scrambler, and would cause the damage described. We have this problem here and I have seen it being done with my own eyes while out running... In fact, I have been appointed by the local ranger to keep an eye out and report perpetrators...

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Come on.. you can't play the I cause no damage card.. as a runner I erode.. 'leave only footprints..'

A skilled rider may cause less damage.. I'll give you that.. very surprised at FC and the NP for granting access on paths..

This is just madness, now everyone will claim they have permission from whoever to ride on the footpath which makes the whole situation impossible to monitor.

Works fine in Scotland

Actually, not only does it work fine in Scotland. But having no legal distinction defining some as either a foot path or bridleway works even in the heavily populated central belt area.

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

Works fine in Scotland

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Actually it didn't did it.. for a start hill tracks... also wasn't there an issue with top gear using a car on a track?

But Scotland has an issue with unregulated hill track developments.. make great easy running though.. :-)

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Originally Posted by Graeme78

I suggest you take a trip to Rivington and have a look at the damage caused by mountain bikers on the path from the belmont road.
I would also suggest a walk over Holcombe moor and have a look at the damage caused by mountain bikers leading down to moorbottom road, in at least three locations, as well as damage caused by mountain bikers on the moor itself. Mountain Bikers are also responsible for the damage caused in Redisher woods, a national nature reserve. The erosion in these areas has been caused by mountain bikers, the grooves worn into the surface are approximately 1.5 to 2 inches wide with a knobbly tread with continuous ware, which seems to come from some ignorant sods who seem to think that riding on the footpaths is fine. These areas are not hard pack they are soft moors and it doesn't take a large number of mountain bikers to do an awful lot of damage.

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The damage in Redisher Woods and the front of Holcombe Hill is being done by downhill mtb's, usually young lads who push their bikes up and then ride down at breakneck speed then repeat the same section over and over. All these downhill sections are set up as Strava segments hence why the same sections keep getting repeated. A distinction needs to be made between these types of mountain bikers and cross country riders like myself who generally tend to be older and more responsible and in my opinion cause minimal damage.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Actually it didn't did it.. for a start hill tracks... also wasn't there an issue with top gear using a car on a track?

But Scotland has an issue with unregulated hill track developments.. make great easy running though.. :-)

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Hill tracks are developed by private landowners. They can kinda do what they like, it's their land.(rightly or wrongly)

Tis a bit different than having no distinction separating users based on chosen mode of non motorised transport.

But yes, makes for faster progress than knee deep in heather. I seem to recall with the Scottish system there's something about the surface needing to be suitable for purpose. Unless your shooting something, in which case go where you like.

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Originally Posted by Maks

The damage in Redisher Woods and the front of Holcombe Hill is being done by downhill mtb's, usually young lads who push their bikes up and then ride down at breakneck speed then repeat the same section over and over. All these downhill sections are set up as Strava segments hence why the same sections keep getting repeated. A distinction needs to be made between these types of mountain bikers and cross country riders like myself who generally tend to be older and more responsible and in my opinion cause minimal damage.

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Quite agree, however it's these lads that are giving the more responsible riders the bad name. I've discussed this in the past with a couple of other guys and heard the same sort of thing, however, given the relatively high frequency I've seen of bikers using the path down from Holcombe Tower by cyclists of all age groups, I would say this is a real issue in the area, and it's not just going through Redisher, cyclists are using the footpath from the Shoulder of Mutton into Ramsbottom,a cross Bolton Road West and into Nuttall Park, these are well used paths, this puts the general public at risk. To quote Tony Blair Education, education, education. If more cyclists were aware of the damage and dangers they cause and why it's bad there would be less conflict. When I was a climber, it was up to more experienced climbers to educate newer climbers whether you knew them or not, good and bad practices, shouldn't cyclists be doing the same.