Yep,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru
They smell something close to wood chip. It less stinky with Injinji socks, though after a longer period I have give them a cycle in the washing machine as well.
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Yep,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru
They smell something close to wood chip. It less stinky with Injinji socks, though after a longer period I have give them a cycle in the washing machine as well.
You should read this thread on another forum:
Yeah VFFs are funky...but sometimes not in the good way
http://birthdayshoes.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0
Remember seeing this on dragon's den - http://www.klenzuk.com/ - at about £200, not suggesting individuals should get one, but you might be able to persuade your local leisure centre or running shop to get a coin-op one?
I've run exclusively in FiveFingers (KSOs) and barefoot since early May. The FiveFingers are great on the road, and also for relatively smooth trails.
Now, the new trail version ("KSO Trek") isn't available in Europe yet, and is set to be very expensive -- you can pre-order it for 190 Eur, if you look around.
However, I just got a pair of Treks shipped from the US (for $105 + shipping), and ran yesterday's Ceiriog Canter in them, much to the amusement of my fellow runners.
They're light and supple, with just enough protection from stones, and plenty of grip for all but the most slippery surfaces. Weaknesses include a tendency to collect clumps of grass between the toes, and a long drying-out time, but the experience of running in them is so enjoyable that I'd still pick them over all-out fell shoes whenever possible.
I wouldn't use the Trek model for road-running, though -- the thinner-soled regular models feel nicer.
My impressions...
I've been running in VFF Classics for about a month now. Not very much as I've been getting over severe sciatica problems but thankfully that seems to be in the past now.
I bought them as I'd experimented with full barefoot running earlier in the year and enjoyed it but running fully barefoot excluded me from too many of my running venues. I think I probably could run many road races fully barefoot but around where I live there's a huge range in tarmac quality so even to run on roads, I was looking for something that would let me enjoy most of the benefits of barefoot running without the drawbacks.
I've now done speedwork in them and some trail runs and really love them. They add another dimension to my running and even when it's uncomfortable, I find I'm enjoying my running more. At the weekend I attempted a 20 mile trail run in my VFFs which was a tad ambitious as my longest run since my 6 month lay-off was just 9 miles the weekend before (and longest run in VFFs was 6 miles).
The first 10 miles were just brilliant, the next 5 got progressively harder due to foot tenderness and at 17 miles I bottled out and put on some regular shoes that I'd been carrying. Given that the trail was littered with stones of all sizes and stacks of Beech mast sticking up like bl**dy clatrops I don't think I did too badly.
My feet are definitely tender today but given my inability to do things in moderation, that's no more than I deserve. ;-) On the whole though I think I got a lot more out of running in the VFFs than tender feet.
At present I'm alternating between ordinary running shoes and my VFFs but ultimately I'd like to be able to run trail ultra events in them.
I've also found that rough trails get progressively harder on the feet in the regular FiveFingers. The big advantage of the Treks is that they have just enough plating under the forefoot to stop the rocks from pushing through at the foot so hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfool
I've concluded that a lot of the foot soreness I get running trails is due more to the unaccustomed strains of free foot movement than the impacts; even the thicker-soled Treks make all the tendons in the foot work much harder than in regular shoes.
I was tempted when I heard about the Treks but I'm concerned that they represent one end of the slippery slope back to full running shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by batmonkey
My view is that the point of the VFFs is to give *just enough* protection to prevent penetrating injuries but not so much that you change your running style significantly from full barefoot running. I'm aware even with the Classics that I don't run in exactly the same way that I do barefoot.
My plan is to continue in my Classics on trails on see if my feet adapt or otherwise get used to the surface before I go down the route of looking for more protection. Dunno if I'll stick with the plan ultimately but I feel it's more in keeping with my view of the barefoot philosophy.
Each to his own however.
Agreed. I'm hooked on pure barefoot and the regular VFFs, so I was hesitant to get the Treks, not least because it's harder to maintain the correct gait even in regular VFFs than barefoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfool
I was struck by Anton Krupicka's treatise on minimal footwear; as a top trail ultrarunner with an impeccable gait who runs a lot of training miles barefoot, he ended up reluctantly concluding that he needed trail shoes:
"Well, because I've found that running on rocky trails does indeed require a bit of protection, too, if I want to be able to run as fast as I possibly can over that terrain. Up until July of 2006 I was doing all of my running barefoot, in water socks, or in the H Streets or some XC flats."
I certainly run faster over rough ground in the Treks, so I guess I've traded off feel for speed, just as I think many barefoot runners use thin VFFs to go faster on certain rough surfaces.
It's an interesting time to have feet. :-)
I guess speed may be the crunch factor for me too. I'm happy that I run faster on roads in VFFs but I don't want to run slower on trails because of my shoe choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by batmonkey
Even tribes way back when would still of worn some form of protection for certain terrain and/or conditions. There's plenty of evidence around such as animal skin shoes and hardened leather sandals. The main point is that they weren't made to "correct" or "improve" the biomechanics of how we walk or run. They were simply designed to keep feet warm in the winter and "protect", not cushion the sole over rough terrain. With VFF’s, there is nothing in their design made to help with “pronation” etc, they just offer protection. Admittedly as soon as you put anything on your feet, it will affect the natural biomechanics, but they’re a hell of a lot better then heavy trainers!
So...it's not really all about going barefoot (although if you can, do!), more about getting our feet out of the shoddy casts we've been made to believe are necessary to run and enjoy yourself :D
Just a thought
Totally agree TerryQuote:
Originally Posted by Terry the Tortoise
I've managed to get hold of the new FiveFinger TREKS from the US for under £100. The Treks won't be available in UK until next year and they will be priced at around £160-£200, so it will still be cheaper to buy this way.
First thing you need to do is register with shopUSA. How this works, is that they provide you with a delivery address in the US. You order something and have it dispatched to this address. They will then forward it on to you for a fee (which they don't take until they dispatch). The best bit is, that although you pay a fee, its far far less then paying all the duty etc you normally would have to.
Then email Anne Fekete ([email protected]) at GSS Gear. They provide gear for military and government agencies, but you won't find the Treks on their website. All you need to do is email Anne and she will help you with the order from there. She's very helpful and provides great customer service. If you mention my name (Terry Conway), it should help with the process.
You should receive your new TREKS around 10 days after payment :D
I paid $145 in TOTAL, which works out at around £90! I can't promise you it will be that cheap for everyone, GSS Gear gave me an amazing discount due to who I work for. Any questions, PM me. :D
Terry, I don't know what your discounted price works out as, but another option for readers is citysports.com. Their list price for the Treks is $124.95, but there are two good coupon codes -- FALLISHERE gets you $20 off, while INSIDERCS gets you 15% off your largest item (ie. $18.75 off a pair of Treks).Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry the Tortoise
Citysports won't ship overseas, but they can ship to shopUSA for $5 (if I recall correctly) so you'd pay $109.95 (£66.58) plus shopUSA's forwarding fee. You can buy online with a UK credit card; just put as much of your UK billing address as possible into their US-address-shaped form, and make up the rest.
I bought my Treks from Citysports and had a relative in the US forward them to me. Very happy. Chose the same size as my regular KSOs and they're just right.
I went to citysports first, but they are very low on stock. Only have large sizes when I checkwed last :(
They list all the sizes now, but there's no obvious indication of their stock levels. I got mine a month or more ago, perhaps beating the rush. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry the Tortoise
Loads of people on Barefoot Ted's list have bought Treks from there and been satisfied; that's where I heard about the coupon codes etc.
Haha...typical! They just didn't have the stock when I asked. GSS Gear are very good though.
I have been running in my five fingers sprints for around 6 months now. I find them great to run in. My only issue is that i haven't been able to match the times i'm capable of in normal trainers. I suspect that this may be due to my stride being shortened slightly by the FFS. This applies to both flat road running and fell running.
Has anyone else found a similar issue?
Cheers,
N
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil A Stewart
Yes, and it can be frustrating.
Alternating between regular shoes and FiveFingers/barefoot can mean that your gait never fully adapts, and during that time it's still possible to bomb around in running shoes, while the barefoot gait feels a bit stilted. Is this your situation?
If you *do* switch fully, it still takes a long time for your gait to adapt. The more you run completely barefoot, the faster it adapts.
Within a couple of weeks of switching fully from racing flats to FiveFingers in June I matched my 10k PR of a month earlier, but my training prior to the switch was unsustainable, with various injuries, and my poor form soon became obvious.
Now, after several slower months without "real" shoes, I feel like I'm finally learning good running form and building up a sustainable core of speed again.
I've consciously decided to suspend the aggressive craving for high performance for a while. I'm in it for the long term, and I'm sure the speed will return. The speed I felt in shoes was obviously artificial if I kept getting injured. I reckon I sprint faster in FiveFingers/barefoot than in shoes, and the sensation of running extremely fast is so much more natural now.
Interesting observations.Quote:
Originally Posted by batmonkey
I'm hanging up my VFFs for the winter. I started off dabbling in full barefoot running earlier in the year and really enjoyed it. I then had a break from running due to a back injury but when I restarted I got some VFFs which I've enjoyed running in. Whilst at first I thought I was still running in the "barefoot" style, I've come to realise that full barefoot is probably the safer way to get going. I've now got tender feet after a long trail run in my VFFs. It was stupid I know but it was the VFFs that made it possible for me to overdo it.
I think putting *anything* on your feet, no matter how minimal inevitably changes the way you run and I think I'll do better by building up my barefoot mileage and using my VFFs for those occasions when it's just too prickly for barefoot running but only after I've build a good base.
I'm a big fan of vivo barefoot casual shoes, and stumbled upon these:
http://barefootrunner.co.uk/vivobare...oes-sneak-peak
OK, so they're unlikely to be any good for off road, but they do look very cool (rather than just plain freaky) and will clearly present a real challenge to the fivefingers 'monopoly'.:)
So i've jumped on the bandwagon, and have a pair of KSOs. I had to swap the size for a larger one as when I got them home my little toe was too sore to run. Wayne at Naked Ape in sheffield did a straight swop for the larger size which feel ggggggreat!
Wore them for a 2 mile jog last night and my legs and feet felt generally fine, so I'm going to try and do a couple of short ones per week as an addition to normal training?
I'm going to avoid trying to indoctrinate every person I meet, having said that I was discussing MBT shoes last night with my other half and after she informed me that lots of her work mates wear them (idiots)........................ This got me thinking, that maybe they (MBT wearers) think I'm an idiot for running around essentially barefoot!!
For anyone interested Purefootwear are offering 15% discount on Vibram Five Finger shoes
go to
www.purefootwear.com
than enter voucher code TG15
I'm reluctantly hanging up my VFFs for the winter (again). I just can't seem to shake off niggling problems with one of my Achilles tendons and my ankles have been playing me up in the mornings.
I don't know whether this is down to the VFFs, just old age and trying to come back too quickly after an injury or too much speed work in them (which I love doing).
I shall miss running in them but I can't help feeling that they're a factor in my current problems.
I think its down to dancing like an old man
Is this your running form I am seeing at the left of username? If the answer is yes I think I know why you're experiencing issues because you're overstriding. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by runningfool
On a more or less serious note I had issues with my left heel after I completed a marathon in May and I think speed work are not helping. I am not sure we can speak of speed with me though. :o
You weren't in the Piersland Hotel in Troon last night were you?? I must confess that it's entirely possible. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Loon Dod
Bring me those new Inov8 X-Talon 190 !!!! :D
http://img154.yfrog.com/img154/9467/stll.jpg
The X-Talon 190 won't be available until mid 2010
Nice colour Inov! Are they talons or flites? :)
There are two 1 arrow shoes the red version is the X-Talon 190 with sticky rubber studded sole.
The F-Lite 195 has as the name says the F-Lite sole which is more suited to road, rocky trail or gym/cross-fit.
....gym/cross-fit???????? Move over Nike ... "here come the girls"Quote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
If you have never heard of it, Cross-Fit is a intensive training programme.:D
The blurb =CrossFit is the principal strength and conditioning program for many police academies and tactical operations teams, military special operations units, champion martial artists, and hundreds of other elite and professional athletes worldwide.
CROSSFIT
If that is the new shoe is this the zero diff. (flat soled) shoe? I will most definitely be getting hold of a pair next summer if it is. Looks like this could quite possibly be the shoe for me
Yes, I think it is Da Ultimate One! :D
Very happy with my x-talon's and anxiously waiting for the 1 arrow 190. Any pic's out there of the f-lite 195 or word on release dates for either of these?
Great link, I will forward to Billy, Joss, Kenny et al.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
Interesting discussion regarding VVF's
http://groups.google.com/group/huara...37f3da7826f750
Has anyone seen the new Speed FFs in shops/online? I read that they are supposed to be coming out this month but they aren't even on Vibrams website yet.
http://birthdayshoes.com/media/blogs...ve_fingers.jpg
Here we go:
:D
The Speeds & Bikilas are on the purefootwear website - http://www.purefootwear.co.uk. Not yet in stock though. They are also advertising the KSO Treks at £165.99!!