The lost art of navigation?

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Not so sure about that. There is a trod the whole way from Skiddaw to Great Calva, I have just had a look for it on Google Earth and no joy. I could see the fence that u need to climb over just after the summit of Skiddaw.

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I'd agree with that. There are so many trods and paths but you need to know where to look and which ones to choose and many of them will be completely invisible to google in any event. The only real 'Elephant Trod' though is the first 5 miles up Skiddaw and of course the last 5 mile run in to Keswick. There are lots of little short cuts and snickets too - the gate on the descent from Great Calva, the best line up Blencathra, the best route off Blencathra? which way to drop off Dollywaggon? Sergeant Man or High Raise first? the preferred line to Rosset Pike? the sneaky hidden path up to Bowfell, the runners trod to Ore Gap, how to flipping find Ill Crag in fog, Fox Tarn, Broadstand or Lords Rake up Scafell? the sneaky runners trod beyond Yewbarrow etc etc. I don't think you could figure out anything like the ideal route from google earth thats for sure, with or without the summits loaded onto GPS :D

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Thats rubbish I'd say - okay a gps can help pin point a summit invisible in the clag but it sure can't help you cover the ground or select the best line/trod/path or quite simply 'know' the ground. Out of the 42 summits I'd say that a gps could be useful in bad weather pin pointing no more than half a dozen of them but that the rest is all down to knowing the ground

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I see them being used all the time, so they must be more useful than you say. You obviously haven't supported as many BGs as I have.

Entering mountain marathons is a great way to learn navigation skills. The organisers even put orange and white markers out, so that you can tell where you are:wink:

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Originally Posted by Johnny Foreigner

I see them being used all the time, so they must be more useful than you say. You obviously haven't supported as many BGs as I have.

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I can see yet another pointless debate developing, the ability to use a map and compass and posses/use a GPS are not mutually exclusive. The ability to put a good route into a GPS needs the skill to identify those routes in the first place. Only an idiot would think they could go in straight lines in mountains and as I said before in a different thread when these people walk off a cliff they will be doing the world's gene pool a favor.

The underwired bit is true if you look in the Pocket Mountain Book, good to know not everyone was asleep, and if you want to know more we still have two spots left on this years course.

Hiya Big Compass, I'm seriously considering a second bash at the FRA navigation weekend but am away in Sweden when the next one is on. Maybe I'll be able to do the one in Kettlewell in March?

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Originally Posted by Big Compass

The underwired bit is true if you look in the Pocket Mountain Book, good to know not everyone was asleep, and if you want to know more we still have two spots left on this years course.

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Hi Hes
Kettlewell next year will be on 15/16/17th March 2013, hope to see you there

I learnt the skills of navigation in the Scouts and found them invaluable when I used them (and often came unstuck when I did not!!). I've never used a GPS (though I can see the use of it) but it can never beat a map and compass for reliability. I can't belive any 'fellrunner' can call themselves as such and not at least attempt to learn the skills!!...

Also you can't shrink a GPS, whereas you can scan a map, mark your checkpoints on it and then reduce it in size - buying you more space in your bum bags and cutting the weight down. You can even get mini compasses if you feel that's too heavy and bulky to carry!!...

I just think a map and compass is more fun. I've got a 10 year old GPS but never use it (big black rubber job- don't even know if it still works). I see them as a tool for rescue people or the military and such not for me, pottering about in the country for fun.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already (apologies if so) but I've been doing a few events organised by Orienteering clubs over the last year or two. My local one is Manchester District (or MDOC) and they put on a varied calendar and are open to people turning up if you drop the organiser an email. Many are open score type events of between 1hr/90mins and very accessible - you have to get as many controls as poss within a certain time. There is sure to be an orienteering club near you wherever you are within reason. Here's MDOC's events list:

http://www.mdoc.org.uk/mdoc_fixtures.htm

Its certainly not a lost art with these lot - many youngsters doing it with great skill and having a great time too. My 10 yr old boy and I have really enjoyed going along together for some 'cunning running'.

I dont think nav on fell races is generally hard - just that some people can't be bothered to learn very basic stuff. More about habit and patience (i.e not running off into the mist without mentally marking a reference point/glancing at the compass, and not always following whoever is in front without checking for yourself, just hoping they've got it right). Although I've been guilty of all that many times.