In addition to the electric fence that was installed near the gate at the bottom of the field, a new fence (as of the last 2 weeks) has been installed the whole length of the field where this recent attack happened.
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In addition to the electric fence that was installed near the gate at the bottom of the field, a new fence (as of the last 2 weeks) has been installed the whole length of the field where this recent attack happened.
I was in the race on Monday - as I ran down the section of track to which you refer I heard someone shout. Turning around I saw two youngish-looking cows running down the track behind me; rather too close behind me for comfort as it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobthrob
At the risk of being shouted at for having done the wrong thing, this is what I did next: I turned to face them, raised my arms in the air and shouted "bugger off". They were only a few metres from me by now, but they stopped and one of them tried to get off the path. Unfortunately, at that point, the path is surrounded by hedgerow and so cow #1 didn't really have anywhere to go. I resumed my run, but so did they. This merry dance continued two or three more times, with the last time proving more successful - the hedgerow gave way and allowed the cows to get off the path and into slightly more open ground where they seemed happier.
The RO did warn us all about bullocks up on the field - I wasn't sure if this was in jest at the time, perhaps a reference to the Tiger's Todger incident. On balance, I don't know what to make of Monday - we were warned, nobody was injured, it cost a little time but not much, and the cows seemed fairly happy once they'd got into the field. I just thought I'd add my account to the thread, given I was at the sharp end.
I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts, especially from other runners around me - I finished 40th.
It is worse this time of year and not just because of calves. When you have young animals that have been kept in barns over the winter and aren't used to people, it's all too easy for their natural curiosity to become a bit boisterous and a playful half ton of beef aint to be messed with! Sometimes shouting and waving your arms works, but occasionally that just seems to wind them up.
Personally I make sure I sing out loud to warn of my approach and my voice is usually enough to make them want to keep their distance! That and try and make sure of an easy escape route....
Are we talking about cattle, or forumites? Or both?Quote:
When you have animals that have been kept in barns over the winter and aren't used to people, it's all too easy for their natural curiosity to become a bit boisterous and a playful half ton of beef aint to be messed with! Sometimes shouting and waving your arms works, but occasionally that just seems to wind them up.
ANy particular hafl-ton forumites in mind:p
So many to choose from....
Personally, I would want to know before hand if there are cows on the course and I would likely not even enter the race, don't wan't to take the risk. Short races like this I think there should be no cows on the course, it's just dangerous. With all this commotion over FRA safety rules I would think cows on the course would be more of a hazard than not having taped seams in my pack!Quote:
Originally Posted by richardbembridge
Unfortunately in the case of the Bamford Sheep Dog Trials you would have paid your entry money and been stood on the startline, before you knew anything about cows being on the course. Its hardly going to make many people stop and think and walk away. Would you get a refund?Quote:
Originally Posted by MickTor
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickTor
In my view a "statement of risk" has to note animals on the courses where it is relevant. At very least it would have formed part of the entry agreement and runner instructions on the day on the Waltz had it been a relevant issue there, because of my hand in that.
Other sports demand such statements , and note that disclaimers are little use or ornament legally, (which is all that is on our entry form)
Not our sport We don't have anyone that with interest or professional competence in safety running our sport, or in a position to make things like that happen. Indeed we refused to allow the only safety qualified person on to the safety committee, and made his position untenable to the point he resigend. All we had was people interested in "being in charge" and enforcing their view of how documentation should be structured.
If we had a responsible FRA it would have already had a cows incident review by a competent person(we do not do them) and made an urgent statement some while ago to runners and RO on the matter. (they do not disseminate either - indeed refused safety articles for fell runner) - both of those core duties of safety management
If nothing else, FRA are too slow to catch cold on the matter in getting a statement out..
At very least we should tell RO to Warn runners of cattle on the course (not done at Bamford) and to note to runners as a matter of duty, that the crush incident happened, and that unless the runners are specifically willing to shoulder that risk which is clearly uncertain and unquantifiable (but not negligible either) then not to enter the race.
For one thing the risk is subjective - Animals know you are scared and they become more bold as a result of people acting scared. Take big dogs. So just being scared of them, is enough of a reason not to enter and every reason for a responsible RO to to say something to all who enter before they commit.
The prime "duty of care" of a race organiser mentioned in rules ,but never expanded as it should be, is to manage what are called "reasonably forseeable risks". Now the "cows" has actually happened, and knowing that runners can "spook" cows, also true at Bamford, the cow attack against a runner / injury caused by them is clearly forseeable - and until evidence emerges that proves that was incidents were unique / unlikely because of a cause (so far undertermined, but common between those incidents), they should at least warn runners of cows on course now, so runners can consent in " knowledge of the risk".which is what the legal principle equivalent of "on your own head be it" demands.
It does not matter at toss whether an RO would actually be found guilty of negligence at present, it is clearly in the interests of safety, to warn runners around cows - and as a matter of caring to allow runners who hate them the choice not to enter if they are scared of them, because just by being scared, they are at greater risk.
I am concerned also about a BMC statement urging all to avoid any footpath crossing fields with cows - which begs an interesting question, on how big the risk actually is.
I dont know for sure, If I had to guess, the lack of proper incident collection statistics, is not accidental. The farming community are probably worried on what would happen if the truth were known in cold hard numbers, so prefer to keep evidence "anecdotal", leaving them less open to negligence claims: or being ordered to keep livestock off public acess fields. That is how industry pressure groups work.
But then all of this is symptomatic of a bigger problem in FRA.
We don't review even our near disasters - take Sailbeck 2014 in any meaningful way - a fatality there would have been a media death knell for fell running - let alone the (several) incidents of near fatal hypothermia and heatstroke that have happened in fell running generally in the last year-
Take one which could so easily have ended with a marshal facing a negligence claim for want of proper safety management in respect of marshal instruction and purpose - the marshal making a statement to a runner that should never have been made, nor heeded. You do not expect to go out and help marshal and come back with a two year wait for a trial.
I doubt if any on our so called "safety committee" can even name the race or the incident.
So on top of the game are they. All we in FRA do is try to sweep actual fatalities under the carpet, then do nothing for years in between, ignoring the fact that real changes in safety are actually made by reviews we do not do in any meaningful way. Not least because our erstwhile rule drafter seems to think he is the supremo of english fell running, so nothing that happens elsewhere matters to him.
The only way to make any of it happen is changes at the top, amongst those who have so far let us down so badly, and turn what should have been a patient sifting of information, leading to competent response in changed documents.
Instead of which we got a triumph of mandated stupidity for runners and RO alike. And for that the so called "key players" expect they will be and should be thanked!!! , and expect an endless number of second chances - when they do not heed even basic advice.
ha!.
As it is always worth deliberately misquoting people. Is this AI's advice regarding dangerous animals? :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysinjured
They're rough down south!
Attachment 7659
It is becoming more than a joke, read this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ked-field.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb4asEv4jz8
A scene from one of my all time fave films..
Controversial I must say.Quote:
is always worth deliberately misquoting AI's advice
It looks as though unprovoked attacks on pensioners by cows is not unusual either.Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysinjured
No dogs involved.
This for example is serious
http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/8...er_cow_attack/
If I were a cow I'd be attacking people too! Living as a slave having me udders pulled for milk and me babies pinched and the end of the line being either shot in the head to feed some fat bast@rd or me throat slit by some sick bast@ard...
Just sayin like..
i guess,wait for it ,you must ad a vegetarian
Vegetarians love dairy Dave.
I see judging by your grammar you must have written this while wanting to be a vegetarian?! :PQuote:
Originally Posted by davekershaw
Grammer? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MickTor
Shoot! Well it's the veggy in me :pQuote:
Originally Posted by wharfeego
Vegetarians bloody vegetarians..
It's all about the fake fur and fake meat pal ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
You are in more danger from humans than from livestock.
Apart from a highlander with a calf at foot; keep well clear.
Max. :-)
Bloody hell this is still going this thread
Bump!
Interesting article on the BBC website today. Watch out for wild boar!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27588210
Did the Forest of Dean HM last year and apparently they are becoming an increasing problem down there.Quote:
Originally Posted by brummievet
Being chased by one would do wonders for your PB though! ;)
There is a vocal minority who would have you believe so, the reality is a little different though.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS
I've always found that life is more exciting if you believe the vocal minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toreador
Forum excepted of course, you have to draw the line somewhere :rolleyes::DQuote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
So what is the reality from your vantage point in York?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toreador
For us locals, the little blighters are a right pest. They have destroyed many of the road verges in the Forest...its like driving through a freshly ploughed field! Friends have stopped going for walks with dogs because of canine/porcine conflict specially in the breeding season.
I have family who live in the Forest of Dean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
The mental cows stayed at a safe distance today ~ they like to run wildly in every direction, no matter how wide a berth I give them; last week one of them jumped over a (pretty dilapidated) fence, taking it slightly closer to me than on the other side. Crazy. Especially as the gates were all open.
Instead of cows, I was chased by a sheep for quite a distance, and I suspect stung by a wasp on the lip.
I find sheep worse than cows. They are more organised.Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
Maybe more organised, but not as deadly!!Quote:
Originally Posted by brummievet
Our lass chases the cows for me usually. The other night got a bit too hairy for my liking though. I was ready to bolt, but she stood her ground. Still not sure its the wise thing to do always...shout 'cush' and wave your arms at twenty cows, a dozen calfs and a big bull! Still we survived! I did thank her for her efforts. :)
down hill mountain biking in Morzine we came flying round a muddy bend in a track through a wood to find a herd of cows on the path! this caused a prompt bail out on to the meadow at high speed...
Had a few hairy incidents when younger doing hiking competitions around Cheshire. We used to shout "I'm the f****r!" at them and wave our arms about; that seemed to work. Only had to ditch the rucksac and run once.
As I got older I got to thinking the profanity was unnecessary and it was just the shouting and positive body langauge that did the job, but I've camped fairly regularly only a working farm in the Welsh speaking part of Wales and they shout "Mother F****r" at the livestock when they're moving them about.
I rather like this post- it's like a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous