Get in! Dawn of a new era for GB!
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Get in! Dawn of a new era for GB!
Afternoon all
This morning I drove into work with a massive smile on my face...and,whilst contemplating the wonderfully refined mechanism, that is of course, British Democracy a large blue shard descended(just like Ted or Ian)down to the left hand side of the car.Shocked I focussed in on the sight and could just make out Turkey Lurkey...indeed the sky had fallen in on him!;)
in reply to sbrt: No worries mate. Like you I completely divorce myself from the utterly unsavoury right wing elements (including pint-boy). I want nothing to do with their rhetoric and cant which is hitched all too easily to realistic concerns of your average person.
Look, as I said, I had no true idea of which way I would go till I got to the booth. In or out, there was no easy answer. So there is no triumphalism in my thoughts today...at ALL. Just a recognition that we have made a momentous decision which, for better or worse, will need full support, mature reflection and clear minded determination to get the best out of it. The next issue will be for our electoral process to find the best leader and team to get on with this.
ConLab coalition anyone???
Boom, how about that eh, Trev? Back of the net. I'm immensely proud to be British, never more so. Immensely proud of my fellow brits for deciding to take a step into the unknown and take a risk. It's becoming a pattern in world politics; Jeremy Corbyn elected, Donald Trump running for president and now UK citizens vote with their feet and leave the EU. It's a new wave of risky thinking from people who are fed up and alienated. Can't wait to see Boris step up now.
The remainers are still banging their drums, though. Keith Vaz was the first to wade in at 06.15 this morning with the same old tales of rack and ruin; listening to Vine's show on the way home from work some other woman from remain was hard at it discriminating against the blood, sweat and toil of indigenous English workers in favour of the so-called 'massive' contribution made by migrant labour. We all built this nation love, all of us who have ever lived and worked here. I'm not really delighting in their moaning, some of it is downright offensive especially from callers.
I actually feel a bit for David Cameron; i don't know if he promised the referendum thinking it would never actually happen, let alone come up leave, or whether he truly wished for the UK people to have their say. Part of me hopes the latter. Mrs C looked very dispondent this morning, she looked like she needed a good hug.
To all remainers i quote the late, great Clive Dunn- don't panic, don't panic!
Un savoury, right wing, pint boy?
Who's that aimed at then?
I always celebrate. Win or lose on the booze.
Onwards and upwards just like fell running.
It's a hill get over it.
What frustrates me about the whole thing is how intelligent people can possibly think Brexit is good for the country
The economy is only going to go one way now and that is down and everyone that was worried about immigration will need to start worrying about value of pensions dropping, benefit cuts, further cuts to public services.
It is beyond me how people can be so naïve!!
what frustrates me about the whole thing is how intelligent people can't see that there may be some merit in us leaving the EU, even if they are in favour of Remain overall.
Every single remain politician wanted to stay in a "reformed" EU. I've no idea what further reforms they might have liked (probably all slightly different) but Cameron tried and got little and clearly they all wanted more.
The best chance of reforms are now we have left - check out some of the European stuff coming out from the likes of Sarkozy. They don't want the Dutch, Danish and Swedish getting itchy feet and he's calling for a Shengen 2 zone, removal of policy making from the Commission.....
But we'll never know what would have happened otherwise. In future, whenever something nasty happens in Europe, or a minor improvement in one aspect of the UK economy, all the leavers will say "it's a good job we voted to leave". And whenever something good happens in Europe or a similarly minor bad thing affects the economy, remainers will say "what a stupid thing they all voted for".Quote:
Originally Posted by luxinterior
We'll never know either way what effect it had.
PS. That won't prevent me making snide comments like "happy now?"
So true Noel....unless we all grow up and get on with it. Ooh, look, a snowball in hell!!
By the way, Pint Boy refers to 'orrible Farage, not well known imbibing forumites!
The economy was only ever going that way anyway. Capitalism is not sustainable, and when it disintegrates it will take the Fiat currency system and your pension with it whether we are in the EU or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by luxinterior
For those that like a cheeky bet.
Paddy Power have a second EU referendum before 2019 at 3/1
What is it with Scotland, apparently it's undemocratic to take them out of the EU. So what about Leicester, Newcastle or London who all voted in, can they also negotiate a deal with the EU?
Graham Breeze?Quote:
Originally Posted by #bob#
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfella
I voted in... over the coming weekend, I intend to contact each of the EU member states in turn with a view to me becoming a break off EU member state :rolleyes:
There could be an interesting division in our household, can different states share a single front door?
Those examples arent comparable, Scotland is a country in its own right. With a fairly homogenous state identity and a sense of nationhood that Leicester simply doesn't have.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfella
I'd put good money on the Brexit vote acting as the catalyst for the end of the UK.
It certainly feels like an end to Great Britain in the long haul to me.
Scotland probably want to be part of the EU to have some financial back-up. They can't hold it alone, and dunna wanna be party to Westminster.
Each to there own now I guess??
Oh globbits!
Mmmmm feels good to be English again.
And that other fine red shirted rugby nation are still our brothers.
On the positive side does anyone think it will help NI become one country again.
Peace and unity in Ireland would be wonderful.
Anyone got Hadrian's number?
There might be a little job going after he finishes Mr Trumps wall near Mexico.
Can't we have a referendum down here to dump Scotland? Now we're on a roll I reckon the 'Piss off jocks' vote would win by a landslide
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7101311.html
Turkeys do indeed vote for Christmas
Utter disaster, How anybody could believe the lies that the briexit camp told you.Already they are denying that they said would spend the £350m on the health service. The next 5 years or more food prices will rise, jobs will go ( how long will the vauxhall plant last). I am 64 proud to say that i voted to remain because it's the younger generations to think about. One big ****ing disaster.
I have had an idea. Since Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain, they could join the Republic of Ireland to form the United Celtdom of Scotland and all Ireland. They would then stay in the EU (by virtue of being an extension of an existing EU member, Ireland). And everyone in Northern Ireland would be happy: the republicans because they were in a united Ireland, and the unionists because they were still united with Scotland (from where most of their ancestors came in the 17th century). What's not to like?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfella
Of course, none of this would help those of us in England and Wales who wanted to remain.
I'm amused by those signing a petition to have parliament ignore the result of the referendum. Maybe we should start one of those after each general election "we'd have the lot that came second". Also interesting that people are reporting it like 1.5 million is a lot - it's nowhere near the millions that actually voted to leave.
Was you amused at the exit vote. You will not be smiling for long!
Natural wastage means that in a few short years a majority of living voters will have voted for remain.
How could anyone believe the lies of Remain?Quote:
Originally Posted by duncz
£4300 worse off by 2030 using weighted estimates and a mixture of figures in the formula from 2015 and 2030 to exaggerate.
The Stronger In campaign almost with one voice talked about staying in a "reformed EU" but didn't and couldn't tell us what those reforms were.
I imagine that Cameron, Corbyn, Farron and Sturgeon all had different ideas of what reforms they would try to get.
But they'd all fail.
Cameron couldn't get anything and he put his head in a noose and lined up a referendum to try and force the issue.
But I take it you watched the debates. I take it you saw the challenges to the £350M a day and saw the acknowledgements that it was a gross figure.
I take it you saw that the Vote Leave campaign said they would like to see £100M a day of the money put in to the NHS and that consideration could be given to taking the 5% VAT of domestic energy.
I take it you also noted that they wanted to use an equivalent sum as is now given by the EU to maintain support for agriculture, science etc.
I take it you realise that they were not the Govt, so do not fix policy and that this is also subject to the Government in power, that may be different to the current one.
I take it you also know that article 50 has to be set in place and it will take 2 years so none of these things will probably happen until 2019.
But never mind, I know some didn't realise. 4 months of debate and they didn't realise.
No I were not.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncz
As I've made it quite clear on this thread I was in favour of remain.
I doubt he saw that, no!Quote:
I take it you saw the challenges to the £350M a day
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/br...-a3279831.html
As per the Scottish Referendum, both sides seem to have a propensity for miss leading, lies, and manipulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
We are already working on it
Attachment 8494
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
Well politics is a dirty business and journalism and truth are rarely comfortable bed fellows.
Both Gove and Johnson are ex-journalists. (The Times/ The Daily Telegraph).
And truth? "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie". (Goebbels).
Oh bloody hell, Breezey's only gone and brought the bloody Nazis into it!
Fitting really, considering some of the motivators that led to the EU.
Ok new vote please. However in the interest of fairness there are pre-requisites as tight as a fell runners mandatory kit in his bumbag.
Must be 18-24.
must be middle/upper class and rich
must have a minimum of 2 A levels and a Blue Peter Badge
must be a direct descendant of a Scottish family.
Must have a finger in an EU exporting business.
"Ok, would those 11 people stand up and step forward. Ermm excuse me, you 6 where are you going?" "We are going to vote". "Do you meet the criteria above?" "yes." "I have a poll that said you voted to leave. Is that true?" "Yes, is that a problem?"
"Yes, it is would you please sit back down as if you meet all the above then you must be a racist."
Really Britain? Is this how far we have come? Get a blooming grip and start working together. My family was divided on the vote. At no time during our discussions did we throw insults at each other. At no time since the result have we thrown insults at each other. It's democracy! What scares me most is the hard line "In" voters that are hell bent on Britain failing regardless of what it will cost.
It looks like that should really be 18-44.Quote:
Must be 18-24.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06...hy/#more-14746
Agree with that, the petulant and patronising response I saw from remain voters was frankly embarrassing. My favourite was a friend that wrote she was ashamed to be British, and then immediately complained her 4 week holiday in Italy was now more expensive. Twat! On the flip side, leave voters are also telling people to shut up and forget about what they want forever. Which is censorship by peer pressure to all intents and purposes isn't really any better. I suppose the appropriate response would be a pro-Europe party agitating for re-entry which is where the Libdems seem to have thrown their hat. Gives them a purpose to exist I suppose.Quote:
Really Britain? Is this how far we have come? Get a blooming grip and start working together. My family was divided on the vote. At no time during our discussions did we throw insults at each other. At no time since the result have we thrown insults at each other. It's democracy! What scares me most is the hard line "In" voters that are hell bent on Britain failing regardless of what it will cost.
Which although I suspect will be annoying for those on the winning side is how representative democracy is supposed to work.
All that said, there's some good people now feeling very, very unwelcome looking at escape routes out of the U.K. And theyre people that will be sorely missed if they do leave. But considering some of more unpleasant the reports I'm seeing, I'm not that surprised.
I think the LibDems are undoubtedly being opportunistic. With around 6-8% of the vote currently, they are just trying to tap in to that 48%.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
I would have more time for them if they just sat quiet while the current process was carried forward and went to Conference and discussed internally putting it in their next manifesto rather than shooting from the hip like this.
It undermines the democratic process.
They need to be careful though as the polling shows that 30% of LibDem voters also voted to Leave so they risk alienating current supporters.
There has been a lot of comment about how the older generations have selfishly cheated the younger generation out of their future. This is scandalous talk in itself since it undermines the whole principle of democracy i.e. one person one vote. But surely if the youngest voters were that concerned about staying in the EU, they could have got off their back sides and voted for it. I read that the turnout in the 18-24 age group was 43%!Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTheSweeper
I thought one of the best comments was from a member of the audience on last night's Question Time who said if there was another referendum and the outcome was still for leaving, would we keep on having one until the "correct" verdict was given.
Amazingly 4% of UKIP supporters are said to have voted for "Remain"!Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
It is also interesting that we have highlighted the case of "we didn't know what we were voting for" or "we were misled".
I do think that politicians have to be more careful.
The Leave bus for example - I know it was only a promotional display but it inferred that £350M more could be spent on the NHS when in fact in discussions this was never said.
The £4300 worse off made it look like we would be £4300 per household poorer by 2030 when in fact that was not the case.
But the population also need to engage more, as deeper analysis and discussion of those figures was carried out.
If you didn't really know, then you only had yourself to blame, and there is no reason to suppose that it was spread across both Leave and Remain voters, and probably very small in number as well.
I also think that the Leave voters were generally "firmer" voters. I think the Remainers were less firm liek Corbyn for example.
Let's face it almost everyone that wanted to stay wanted a reformed EU and could not sell the EU in its current form.
The BBC in particular as a public service broadcaster could have played more of a role in this. Rather than hosting these adversarial debates, they could have put on a series of informative programmes looking at how trade functions, what the consequences would be of leaving the single market, of trading under WTO rules.
They could have looked at current immigration policy, the possibility of better border controls, and ask how immigration from outside of the EU seems to be higher than the Tory Govt target as well - if controls can work why isn't it?
There were a couple of attempts that I saw, but they really were too simple and just repeated the debating points without the ranting.
yes I've seen that - a bit odd that :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever