Well, this seems perfectly reasonable http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37677973
A Conservative councillor in Surrey, Christian Holliday, has launched a petition calling for support of UK membership of the European Union to be declared treason.
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Well, this seems perfectly reasonable http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37677973
A Conservative councillor in Surrey, Christian Holliday, has launched a petition calling for support of UK membership of the European Union to be declared treason.
Dieu et mon droitQuote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
She can sod off as far as I'm concerned, although I acknowledge that institution is important to some.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7369181.html
LSE "possible" forecast
The task ahead;
The paper warned that the UK would need to grow trade with its 10 largest partners outside the EU by 37% by 2030 in order to mitigate any negative impact on trade.
Some minor guff;
“At the Centre for Economic Performance at LSE we estimate the effect of leaving the customs union and trading with the EU under World Trade Organisation rules would be equivalent to a fall in living standards of between 2.6% and 9.5% due to reduced trade with the EU.”
Does that mean only one holiday a year ? That would be terrible, might even have to flog the Merc and cook my own food, how will we survive ?
Don't know and don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaning Hobbler
However, for those already struggling is where my concern lies.
Brexit is an amazing farce. The government could not give a running commentary even if they wanted to, as they have not got a clue what is going to happen. We do not know where we are going, nor how we are going to get there, and well before we arrive those who voted for it will be exclaiming "WTF - I want to go back!"
If only we could confine the losses to those who voted for it.
I reckon the people who voted for it did so for specific reasons. I reckon they sussed out we're just getting out pants pulled down and chose not to put up with it, I don't buy this argument of them all being confused old coffin-dodgers dreaming of better days. Lets say we stayed in- if the Eurozone collapsed and took us with it, would you be happy to confine the impact of a currency failure to those who voted in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
You'll still be getting shafted, Westminster is far from a bastion of egalitarian piety. You'll just understand the meally mouthed shites easier on the news.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside
That said the whole bitter overtones (from both sides) is very unhealthy. Especially so if we enter a period of short term pain, which in this context us what, 10 years or so. The implications on people's lives of increased economic pressure go far beyond not affording a second holiday. We're talking about people falling into poverty, both relative and absolute, increased pressure breaking families and a rise in homelessness and suicide rates.
I can't imagine it's much fun being a non UK citizen at the minute with the Government using you as a bargaining chip (not that the EU is any better).
I see the city is threatening a significant departure!
I think those who vote for something should accept the consequences or receive the benefits, though I can see this would be far too complex to do in practise.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside
That's the whole point of democracy Mike. We all get to share the consequences of a plebiscite.....which is why some in a position of so-called authority seek to remove this right (because they know better!)
We're between a rock and a hard place, i think most of the brexit voters knew this. Nobody likes an alarmist, but i reckon we're sliding in the same direction whether we're in or out; the game just plays itself out slightly differently. The key benefit to being out is that in the event of a serious crash in the eurozone we have our closed border to protect us from the mayhem that will ensue. People will move to the last areas of prosperity in order to save themselves and their loved ones from the effects you describe, the UK is likely to be one of the last bastions. It's not just EU nationals we'll be taking in either, by that time it will probably be half of the Middle East and North Africa as people from those areas are already leaving in their droves. It's the beginning of a slow decline driven by overpopulation, climate change and resource depletion; the very same thing that finished off most of the other great civilisations.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
I think it took me about 5yrs to come to terms with the fact that our civilisation, the greatest yet seen, is just as fragile as the ones that have come before it. We're arrogant, greedy and complacent by nature, and it will cost us dearly just as it cost everyone else. I think a hard Brexit will be a key thing in softening the blow long term; short term- all the cutting back, economising, budgeting and surviving we'll be doing will be good for us, because we'll probably end up being glad of the practice one day.
I don't get it, why so much fuss about what she said at Goldman-Sachs? She said Brexit was going to be bad for the UK economy. Now this has been "leaked" and triggered much noise. Hang on a sec, she never stated she was pro-Brexit, she always officially stated she was agains Brexit. So how is her statement at GS different than her official position...?
OK, she is PM now, and she must/will implent Brexit. That does not mean she likes it or she thinks is a ogod thing.....
Yes, and she is doing what David Cameron (should be /) said he was going to do. Her opinion is no more valid, or invalid, than anyone else's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambatte
Must go over to England next year to do a run.
I've never competed outside Europe...
Make it quick. We'll be shut down soon. What a mess
No way, when do we haul up the anchor and where are we sailing to? I'd be happy to see us drift north so we get some proper winters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
If it all went proper tits up in the EU, wed have a closed border fairly quickly. Although if we can't stop them crossing the Med well not stop them crossing the channel.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside
All civilisations fail, the challenge for us is to not be around when it happens. There's a good chance on a damp squib fizzle out rather than a cataclysm.
Oh, I see Nissan have been told to expect tariff free trading. Be interesting to see how that pans out, can't really see just the automotive industry getting that in isolation.
And that would have wider implications.
with 7000 jobs at stake so whatQuote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
You'll need to elaborate that one please?Quote:
Originally Posted by lilactime
There must have been 15,000 jobs lost in textiles in the East Midlands alone between 1995 and 2005. Nobody gave a damn. How many have gone in engineering? I was talking to a lad in recruitment on Friday. He is 40ish and said he's done well since leaving uni in the mid 90s. He said recruitment is dead. His sector is talking about another lost decade. Hey, but at least we have regained "control"
Thatcher's legacy. Let Johnny foreigner do the dirty, manual work. Saying that, we are all complicit. Wanting cheap, imported goods.
Thankfully we still have semi-nationalised,Rolls Royce, propping up the East Midlands.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7390356.html
From the article;
“It will definitely end with a deal that is so bad they will either get an election about this new bad deal, or they will have to have a parliamentary election before that,” Mr Drusebjerg said. “It’s very possible that Britain will never reach Brexit because I think down the road it will be obvious that the deal they will get will be really, really bad for the economy.”
Brexit is shaping up to be the worst of a slew of nationalist sentiment that’s hitting the global economy, the strategist said, citing a potential Donald Trump victory in the US election, a constitutional vote in Italy in December to limit the power of the Senate and parliamentary votes next year in Germany and France.
If it were a game of rugby/football, the two sides have just come out of the tunnel and are on the pitch warming up. The ref hasn't even blown the start whistle yet, never mind anyone actually knowing how the game will play out, what tactics the teams will use or what the result will be.
But like Welsh rugby, it's something for all the "experts" to talk about in the pub :)
Bad analogy Moley, I live in Scotland and the outcomes of the national sides footy and ruggers matches are crushingly predictable ;-)
Besides, two things.
I've no idea how all this will pan out, but I do know there's enough pro brexit supporters on this forum to post good news stories without my input.
Second thing, the article is really about an actual impact of the vote rather than a prediction, the withdrawal of investment has already happened. Although it's telling that the impact is unmeasured despite being a known quantity, instead the journo just picked the biggest number they could find regardless of relevance.
What on earth are you doing - that looks really destructive?
It is - much more than I thought - it seemed a good idea when I started.
Why don't you stop?
I can't change my mind, can I - that would be silly!
Setback this morning. MPs set to get a vote.
There'll be an appeal, but if that fails they court always take it to the European Court :-)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785
Whether a remainer or a leaver we should all be very afraid of the precedence this ruling has set.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
If I was Theresa May I would call a general election now. I was against the idea when she became PM in the summer but since many MP's will use this ruling to try and thwart the will of the electorate it seems like the only option. If the polls are to be believed the likely result would be a Tory landslide and many more pro Brexit MP's.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
Whenever the next election is, assuming Corbyn is still the Labour boss, the Tories will win in a landslide - so the longer the Tories delay this the better, from their point of view. Given that the majority of MPs are against Brexit, and the electorate has no idea what it has voted for, any chance of rescuing the situation should be taken. This seems as good a way out as any.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
Absolutely, stuff democracy. Look what happens when you let the little people have their say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
They used to use this argument in the 19th century as the reason for not extending the franchise.
The trouble is, as Asimov said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
And who is an expert on Brexit? - exactly nobody.
People have varying degrees of knowledge and understanding on both sides of the argument. I know a number of people who voted to remain and had no clear concept of why. But if Remain had won I would have accepted the decision. That's democracy, get over it. It may have its weaknesses but the alternative is far worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
I thought Leave did win? Or have I missed something whilst I've been asleep....?! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
Doh! I'll change it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbsy
People who voted leave will not get what they want when they voted and instead we are all heading into an economic mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
Great job..................
But sometimes people are put in an impossible position because they are asked a question that they shouldn't be asked. Should we put Childhood Vaccinations to the electorate in a referendum? Of course not. Brexit is the same, except there are no experts, and too many unknowns. MPs represent us, they have access to expertise, extremely limited as it is on this subject - they should vote on our behalf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
"We" made a terrible mess of the vote (in fairness we were lied to about all kind of factors in the run up to the referendum). Hopefully the MP's will get it right and put an end to this wretched position