You're right, the weather's glum outside and we could all do with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
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You're right, the weather's glum outside and we could all do with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
"I am a channel for the Christ spirit. The title was given to me very recently by the Godhead." Christopher Leigh 28/02/07Quote:
Originally Posted by crowhill
"Athletes in Britain cannot compete in some events, because many foreigners are not subject to the same testing protocol." David Icke 05/07/1995
So bored that you read it and respond CCR :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Clash City Rocker
Quite proud that this thread has gone to over 20 pages. However, I think that some folks have missed the most important point completely and looked to supposed intellectual argument to defend the indefensible.
Racism is wrong. Therefore any "political party" with racist policies, membership criteria or views is wrong. Don't be fooled by the media friendly facade of the BNP, if you haven't watched the You Tube links earlier in the thread do so now and then tell me it's not shameful that these people will be representing our country.
No matter how hard done by you feel as a white middle-class male under the current political system you're not being told where to sit on a bus, not being verbally/physically abused, not being hounded out of your home and not being killed!
The BNP is the thin end of the wedge, don't give them a foot-hold and don't be fooled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
You're right Nicklas racism is wrong. All forms of forced collectivism are wrong. If Israel had separated religion and state, then it's very likely that they and the Arabs could have co-existed.
And if the former Palestine had a system of individual rights instead of democracy, they wouldn't of allowed the Jews to be in a position to impose their religious laws.
I think it wrong though to assume that just because the Government is not killing people here that everything is alright . Sure they may not be going to those lengths just yet, but they do plunder. If they justify plunder on the grounds of the 'common good' then there is no reason why they shouldn't justify murder on those grounds either.
I feel we're coming to an understanding CL! I don't believe that everything is alright here... far from it. I also don't have the depth of understanding, knowledge or prominence to offer a solution. However, I do have a vote in a democracy and can get rid of the current government if I don't like what they're doing. OK, the current "crop" isn't the best but I just can't see how anyone could vote for the BNP and I'm hopeful in the General Election they won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
Nikalas - I think we all view racism is wrong - and in the context of this thread it is set out as White Middle Class against Black.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
But mear in mind that much of the racism in the world and the UK doesn't even involve "Whites".
It is clearly wrong and live and let live - do unto others .... should be the environment we promote.
Democracy is a different topic.
Our democracy doesn't give us that much choice. How do you vote to come out of the EU?
I have never had a referendum - the one on the free trade organisation that was the Common Market was held when I was still at primary school.
The 3 main parties are all "for" in their various way. UKIP the only "reasonable" party against - and no chance of a UKIP MP - so a UKIP vote at a General Election is likely to be a wasted one.
In the EU elections - PR gives the likes of UKIP a chance - but as we see it also gives the likes of the BNP a chance.
People like me who want to leave the EU are often demonised as "Little Englanders", Right Wing and put in to this Nationalist box - associated incorrectly with BNP.
I have nothing at all against Europe - just the EU. It is undemocratic, corrupt, protectionist, wasteful.. and getting increasingly unpopular in many of the founding countries.
Funny really as the old Labour left wing under Foot and Kinnock used to be anti-EU and now anti-EU is portrayed as Right wing.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we shouldn't demonise what is a valid viewpoint such as leaving the EU, immigration control - as that is what then brings the BNP to the table.
I agree... but, if you look back to my opening post, I was simply stating that I was ashamed that "we" as a country have sent two of these people to represent us in Europe. Regardless of reasons, excuses, protest votes etc the BNP is not the party it portrays itself to be but something much darker and more evil. People need to look beneath the public veneer and then ask themselves do they really want to be represented by them as opposed to buying into their knee jerk, simple solutions and populist policies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
A lot of agreement now - we are in danger of reaching a consensus :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
There are many examples of politicians / parties saying one thing to get in and doing another.
The biggest one that springs to my mind is the introduction of University Tuition Fees.
The Labour Party Manifesto of 1997 made no mention - it merely pointed to the Dearing Report that was to be published and the fact that they had made their reviews to the committee.
I am not pointing this out as a party political issue, merely as an example.
But Nickalas we live in a 'save my skin country.' If people feel they can live better lives under the BNP they'll vote for them. At the moment they see some immigrants coming over here, just to claim benefits. Some arrive with no intention of finding work. They just come to breed children at the tax-payers expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
How does one stop this without voting BNP? Well you can't without changing the system to one without any handouts.
The BNP might be racist, but I don't see them as being any worse than the Labour or Conservative parties.
Nice one CL. This thread was in danger of reaching consensus. Are you on commission from the company who hosts this forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
I know quite a few recent immigrants - they mainly seem to be here to work - in some cases they aren't allowed and are forced on to benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
The indigenous population are the real workshy - of all ethnic backgrounds.
Sure the benefits system needs reform so that the genuine cases of hardship can get better help and the cheats get found out.
The prolem has been though that until the last 12 months, unemployment was around 1 million (:rolleyes:) and most of those that wanted work had work.
In come the immigrants that fill the void.
Then comes the downturn - 1 million now unemployed - immigrants get the blame.
Really the fault lies with not making sure that those 1 million workshy of 12 months ago, and the several million "bad backs" etc did not fill the jobs.
If they had, the immigrants would have found work eslewhere.
The immigration problem is not created by the immigrants. But they now take the flack.
I give up... that last statement is simply a ridiculous contradiction. Of course they're worse if they're racist!Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
''The BNP might be racist, but I don't see them as being any worse than the Labour or Conservative parties.''
Interested in many of your views CL as some valid and intelligent points but sorry the above statement loses you any of my sympathy am in agreement with nikalas...
Racism is wrong.
Right so we have come to the conclusion that Racism is wrong.
And ''The BNP is Racist". Which again we have come to the conclusion it is wrong!
So, what makes Labour or Conservative parties as worse? they do not judge a person on colour and creed when they want voters.
I was chatting to a local Labour councillor last weekend. He was of the opinion that the BNP and voters of are c*nts. When asked why, he said that they are racists and their politics don't count for sh*t.
I challenged him by reminding him of the flavour of the month Diversity Policy that all councils push if you go for a job there, and that no-one should be castigated for political , religious, personal etc beliefs, to which he replied that 'It doesn't count for those shites.'
Pushing the issue, I asked about the voting and was told that the people who voted for BNP should 'Have been told to vote Labour because lalalalalalalabolloxbolloxblah, as BNP are all scum'.
Asked about the democratic right to vote that this country is proud to hold, he informed me that 'If anyone votes BNP, they do not deserve to live in a Democracy. They should be thrown out. If people do not listen to us and waste their vote, they should be told how to vote.'
When I reminded him that this is how facism starts, he threw a hissyfit and buggered off.
Politicians. Each and every one of them a waste of space, no matter what party. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbert
Most members of the three main parties seem to hold this view. By voicing this kind of opinion, they're helping the BNP. What real politicians should be doing is not dismissing the BNP, but pointing out how ridiculous the BNP's policies are by asking them to clarify how they would carry out their manifesto, and by picking holes in this.
The BBC are just as bad if not worse. It really offends me that the today programme presenters don't interview BNP politicians in a way that they would interview members of other parties. Give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves.
Noel, i agree with you. Look how far Monster Raving Loony Party got, when they were questioned etc...Well said Noel!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
I agree totally and I think a lot of it stems to the visceral reaction that most people have to such extreme and offensive views (raising guilty hand). Stepping back and taking an objective/democratic view is extremely hard but is probably necessary to expose the true BNP, their paper thin facade and the racist scum they really are.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
I think that tarring all politicians with the same brush is an overly simplistic cop out. We have a system and, while it is far from perfect, it could be a hell of a lot worse.
I have been in and out of this thread for a while now, not studied it in great detail, but am aware of it's undertones and how people feel, it's a very difficult subject to chat about without people pointing fingers, i can only chat about what i see around my area and peoples feelings about that, and in my view why they have turned to BNP or away from traditional parties.
I live in East Lancashire and the Belt of say Blackburn/Accrington/Burnley up to Colne has changed so much over the years that it is now unrecogniseable to as it was say 15 years ago.
If people say or can not see that there is not a problem with the young Asian/white community well they are blind, there is so much tension and drug related crime that it has created a split in the area that i feel will never be repaired, many people who i know will only talk about there distaste about the Asian Majority youth, (for example) there inability to park often comes up ie they park where they like stop in the middle of the road to chat to there friends, and basically have no regard for simple law, now i am not saying that white youth do not do the same, far from it, there is as much bad as good, the thing that i see is that the lets say middle/working class who take the time to vote use this type of behavior as a basis of there decision to say who they vote for.
I did not vote and my views are mine, the point that i am trying to make is that if the parties do not try and work out the problems where will we be in another 15 years time?
I feel the social problems/drug related crime need resolving or the BNP will gain in power and that could leave us in a much worse position.
Not eloquently put as i am not a politician
thought a quote from Ferris Bueller could sum things up
"Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself."
I think Danbert's politician highlights the problem.
The hatred and vile that he shows against the BNP is comparable with the hatred and vile that he complains about.
I think for those that have had a pop at CL for his assertion that the main parties are as bad as BNP, this is what he is alluding to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Danbert is spot on, and as has already agreed the politicians should be:
"pointing out how ridiculous the BNP's policies are by asking them to clarify how they would carry out their manifesto, and by picking holes in this"
Perhaps the politician's hatred is comparable.... but his hatred is towards something that has already (mostly) been agreed to be wrong.
So therefore hating something that is wrong is not as bad as hating someone because of there race, skin colour etc. So the main parties may be bad but they are not as bad as the BNP, there is a big differance.
that's hitting the nail on the head... if you haven't done already, all of you apologists for the BNP or those who think other mainstream politicians are "just as bad" please watch thisQuote:
Originally Posted by are we there yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DdF...om=PL&index=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqI2k...om=PL&index=19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC-SN...rom=PL&index=3
and then see if you still feel the same way.
I tried to Nikalas, but all the URLs don't work. It looks like you've pasted from a truncated URL.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
The comment re Colne and that belt is interesting, Keighley has a large asian minority, it is odd that swimming baths can have racism, have felt intimidated / seen racism between young people when with little and big biara BUT in gym at same building have not seen anything.
Children aren't born racist, they learn it, as adults we need to teach that it is wrong and that there is a better way. I voted red, have done all the time, don't like all that they do but do think they are better than others. Hate the lies and other crap that is emerging but there are honest MPs who have the constituents at heart, I happen to believe mine is good but I have time for the leader of Bradford council (a Blue) who had the decency to reply to an email I sent him without lie, bull or political rubbish at 10.30 on a sunday night!!
I have faith in Britain, the British people and life, remain optimistic about life, however much crap and horrible info I come across in my job. We are lucky in this country and sometimes I think people forget it.
No it isn't. You and others on here just don't want to face the truth. In the Daily Mail yesterday there were two stories which prove My point. Police now searching more whites without evidence, to bring the numbers up to that of blacks, and gipsies being put at the front of Gp's queues.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
Racism in other words.
That's a contradiction. If he means people should make something of themselves, then they should believe in the only system that allows them to do just that: Capital...ismQuote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
Let me see now. Politicians pointing out the contradictions in BNP policy. How are they going to point out the inconsistencies of the BNP, when they practise the same inconsistencies?Tell me that Mr EdmondsQuote:
Originally Posted by noel
CL, I can't quite believe that because it is written in the Daily Mail you think that it is true, come on......
The goverment of recent years is spineless and seems not to address issues that the BNP are highlighting such as immigration, the justice system & benefits system which is why they won so many votes due to the percieved apathy of mainstream parties.
Go to TheHeathens original post on page 14Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
CL what the hell is someone of your obvious intelligence doing reading the Daily Mail and taking as gospel what's written?Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
Was only supposed to be a lighthearted interjection and not taken seriously... I take it you haven't seen the film or you'd have realised this.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6521199.eceQuote:
Originally Posted by biara
How about The Times?
http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=8889
Police Professional.com
From The Guardian
"He later said that while the police should not discriminate racially, it was equally important that they should not balance the statistics.
"If, for example, 50 blonde women are stopped who fall nowhere near any intelligence-led terrorism profile, it's a gross invasion of the civil liberties of those 50 blonde women.
"The police are perfectly entitled to stop people who fall within a terrorism profile even if it creates a racial imbalance, as long as it is not racist."
The media are quoting directly from Lord Carlile of Berriew QC. I assume that he will sue if he has been mis-represented,
I think we're getting off the point again. Yes there are inconsistencies and wrongs (plenty!!) with the current government, system, policing etc but this is the real world not a utopia.
But the BNP is not the solution and people need to be aware of who they really are and what they really stand for.
I don't think however that any other political leaders in this country have been convicted for inciting racial hatred. Or, have prospective councillors who's "dream" is to "machine gun muslims coming out of a mosque".
Christopher, you're now a liar too:Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
Yet you use it constantly to back your arguments up.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
Just because he may have gotten a story from the Daily Mail, doesn't mean he "loves it".........Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens
If you read the context of the previous thread it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellMonster
You should have chosen your quotes better to illustrate the point for numbf*cks like me who can't be arsed to read through everything!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens