My problem is that i have to find road shoes because i am not able to run very often in the mountains.
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My problem is that i have to find road shoes because i am not able to run very often in the mountains.
Wear racing flats...the lightest, thinest pair you can find!
I was wearing adidas adizero pro which have minimal cushioning but i had pain in the heel and outer part of the left foot. Iwas thinking of trying F-lite 230 which don't have great difference in the sole thickness between the heel and toes.
Are you or were you heal striking? That would explain the pain.
I used to be a heel striker and wore orthotics in all my trainers. I now go barefoot, use FiveFingers and if I have to, racing flats. I now am a more natural forefoot/midfoot runner and no longer suffer from any of the usual "running" injuries such as shin splints, knees etc. The only things I get now are superficial things like sore calve muscles and the odd blister. The thing I notice most now after a run is that although I have aching muscles, I no longer suffer from bone, ligament or tendon aches.
I am trying not to be but since my heel and outer part (near the ankle) hurt, it seems that i am :)a little. I started running barefoot progressively this summer until i reached 25 minutes continious running. Then i bought the adidas adizero pro because i can't run barefoot at night. Since wearing these shoes i started the pain i described. The problem with most shoes, even the minimalist ones, is that they have a raised heel.
One thing to add, is that i have made long distance walking (about 7 hours) with my Rolite's 370 with no pain at all.
Bit of advice/encouragement needed...
I've been doing regular 'barefoot' (in aqua shoes - tried au naturel but found I my feet could only take so much rough tarmac, and I'm doing this to improve my running form, not for some return-to-nature-and-be-at-one-with-the-ground reason) running for a few weeks now, but don't seem to be making much progress with the distance I can safely run and the resulting calf pain. I'm limiting myself to 2km per run and have built up to doing that 5 times a week on top of my 'normal' running, but usually by the end of that I can feel my calves tightening and sometimes even have to walk the last bit because it feels like I'm in danger of spraining something if I push it. On the occassions I have tried to run a bit further, I've ended up with a calf strain and having to take time off, and my achilles are permanently a bit tender (although his has been the case since before starting barefooting). Any idea how long it's going to take to adapt? I know I've got very tight calf muscles and I'm going for some remedial massage next week, so hopefully that will help. Maybe I'm just not giving my calves a chance to recover between runs or maybe I just need to be more patient...
I do enjoy my 'barefoot' running, and it feels like I'm doing it right - legs bent a bit more than normal, quick light steps, landing on fore/mid foot under the body then heel touching down lightly + nice and relaxed. Mind you I'm not sure I've got the hang of going downhill - even a fairly gentle slope - maybe because the angle makes it more difficult land in the forefoot? - any tips? When I put my road shoes on and go back to heel striking it just feels strange and like I'm pounding the pavement in comparison!
If your Calfs and Achilies are aching that quick i would suspect that your not letting our heel come down far enough and are landing forward of ball of foot. I cant run down hill very well barefoot but I cant half storm up wish I could sort that also.
SkidsQuote:
Originally Posted by Skids
I think you may well be over doing the barefooting if your going 5 times a week.
I personally find a couple of times a week working on form and think of it as a foot stregthening run rather than a "normal" session works best for me.
As for any down hill, lean forward, ball off the foot, bend knees and relax.....and take it slow.
Im also not into the hippy trip back to nature thing for me its about having been injured on and off for years and then reading about the benifits of "Natural Running".
It wont be for everyone and dont expect your local running "specialist" to embrace you or the whole barefoot/minimalist thing, after all the big brands have spent squillions "educating" the retailers and consumers that CUSHIONING and stiffners etc are what is needed.
Barefooters are a tiny minority who are thought of as cranks because its easy to dismiss especially when your trying to sell the much needed (not) Technology in shoes.
I would also look at going "minimalist" in all your shoes if you can, this will help to stretch out your calves, achilles etc.
I found that going barefoot then putting a normal shoe on with a heel then back to minimalist fell shoes wasnt doing my feet the best chance of adapting.
.
One of my problems is that my right calf is so tight that my right heel barely touches down at all - have the same problem going uphill in shoes - my left foot feels nice and 'springy' but the right ankle it very inflexible and locks out much sooner because (I've always assumed) the calf it too tight. And of course, because my calves are tight, it's putting a lot more strain on the achilles. Never really noticed this until I started running earlier this year, so I don't really know why, but I think it stems from when I had really bad sciatica in that leg a few years ago and didn't do enough stretching as I was recovering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loon Dod
Sorted already! My day to day shoes are now barefoot vivo (a pair of black leather dharmas and brown suede oaks, both with insoles removed) for that very purpose. As far as running shoes goes I'm in mudrocs on the fells as much as I can, but practicalities dictate that I still do some running on tarmac in shoes that allow me to (excuse the bad language) heel strike:o - otherwise the state of my calves/achilles would limit me to rather low mileage I'd soon lose what little fitness I currently have. I made the mistake a couple of weeks ago of doing a little 'barefoot' run after which I put on my asics for a few more miles - it felt natural and good to carry on running with a forefoot strike, so I did. The result - a week or so off with a calf strain:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
But yes - I agree - ultimately I'd like to be doing all my running in minimalist shoes - I've got a brand new pair of cushioned shoes sitting in their box in my wardrobe as my old ones are due for replacement (based on the so called expert advice;)), but I'm determined to never use them if I can help it.
I think when ascending during mountain/fell running, the calves and achilles strech much more than "normal"
Skids, Ditch the Asics, I hold them fully responsible for my ankle injury last year (3 months off.) I reckon that you might need to have a month where you go pure minimalist, barefoot/aqua shoe/VFF/etc. But kerb the milage build it up slowly, plenty of stretching don't go too far/too fast... basically start running from the beginning again. Essentially this is what anyone who transitions should bare in mind. Personally this is how I did it, very, very slowly. building up mileage in VFF's and barefoot and then using one type of running shoe only (which is the X-talon, so very flat). I try my best not to run on roads, but if I do it's in VFF's and I can't run more than 5-6 miles on tarmac before my brain explodes anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skids
IMO barefoot/minimal make road running much more enjoyable.
I would like to be a pure barefooter, but I would also like to be a mountain runner and the two don't go together that well, so It's a compromise. What we can do though, and I am adamant about this, is throw out all our high heel clunkers!
Born to Run now finished and long before I go tto the end I determined that I would be going barefoot so tonight I have joine dthe clan. Ran up Wansfell with shoes but once over the back I found a great path to go barefoot of course I checked no one was around as it felt somehow like i was breaking a taboo. Managed a wonderful springy third of a mile and would have gone further but was really surprised how cold my feet got despite if having been a sunny and warm day. It was about 6pm so it was cooling down. But I will be having much much more of this it felt so good.
just to let everyone know that office are doing some minimal shoes that can pass as work office shoes yet are practically barefoot.
No heel no cushioning, soft leather and very flexible. Feels like slippers, looks like work shoes and only £30
http://www.office.co.uk/mens/office/.../6786/18333/1/
better in the shop than in the picture. Only thing is they may not last through winter.
Just found a link to this on the Huaraches forum:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyros76
http://antonkrupicka.blogspot.com/20...-footwear.html
Anton describes how he has cut a bit of the heel of his shoes, I think he may have even butchered a pair of F-lites. He also writes a lot about minimalist footwear.
I just read the article and Anton writes that he was very satisfied with the F-lite 250 (which i think is dicontinued)
Anton wears inov-8 but is sponsored by another large American brand :D
If you want to see what Anton is doing on some shoes here is a trailer from Indulgence movie...
http://www.negativesplit.net/indulge/teva.html
Maybe he was doing that because he didn't want to change the brand of the shoes and loose the sponsoship. I think it is better to look for a shoe that suits you best than trying to modify a certain shoe when it is not the best choice for you.
I wear f-lites to work... blue ones for normal workdays and when I have to dress up smart in a suit for art fairs and the like, I wear the all black f-lite pk's... Hardly anyone notices you are wearing what practically are trainers... and those who did notice thought it was pretty cool!Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
I have the theory that not many people look at my footwear, but they would notice it if I were grumpy because of sore feet and legs :D
Oh and most of the time I wear them 'slipper' style, with the heel flattened down, so I can easily slip in and out of them... :)
I'd love to try some VFF or equivalant but don't fancy paying up front for something I might use a couple of times and not like.
any one know of a shop that has test shoes to try??
Good question, I am the same...Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
That's exactly why I'm using £5 aqua shoes (with insoles removed) for my tentative 'barefoot' experiments :)Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
This guy:
http://www.barefootrunner.com/2009/0...teraqua-shoes/
seems to have tried most options and rates aqua shoes at "8/10 toes" which is better than all the alternatives (apart of course from proper barefoot), including one of the fivefingers models. Obviously I can't really comment as I've not tried fivefingers myself, but part of me would like a pair of fivefingers simply because they look so far-out and conversation-starting. I wonder how many other people get them for that reason. Fine if you've got the money I guess.
brilliant. I may try this. looks like a good option and I can use them for work;):DQuote:
Originally Posted by Skids
I bought some for a few quid a couple of summer back, to wear when walking in the river but never used them... hmmmm, may give that a try :)
Skids I too use aqua shoes and they're great for runs where I don't need a great deal of grip. Bought some from Lidl this summer and they are now showing slight signs of wear and tear!! Had I known I would have bought at least 5 more pairs! Recently when running off road say on grass I've been using the shoes I use for kayaking. They are aqua shoes but made completely out of neoprene. This means that if water does get in my feet stay warm.
Like you I too would like a pair of VFF's but will wait until the new Trek ones are available and until a friend is going to the US who can buy them much cheaper!
I love the five fingers, but must admit it was a bit of a punt, some people have not got on with them and suffered from blisters. I think that if you are the sort of person that normally doesn't have issues with the fit of shoes then you should be alright. If you have webbed toes, stay away.
I wear mine mostly out and about on the weekends they do cause quite a stir. One little chap thought I was really cool though, so if the kids think they're alright then they're alright.
Got to say though I'm running in them less and less, my current shoe is the 285 with insoles out, I still do a little bit of barefoot now and then, but as I'm now racking up milage for the brecons ultra, I decided to stick with one pair of shoes exclusively and concentrate on going barefoot more next year. I think a lot of my injuries occurred as I kept switching between 3 different types of shoe.
Had a first go at actual barefoot running today - just did about half a mile on the local park with the dog. Does feel nice, and I'm fairly happy that the switch to flatter shoes has meant that my gait in shoes is much closer to that barefoot than it was a few months ago.
Cheers for all the info on this thread, hopefully I'll get a bit more distance done next time before my calf twinges.
He wrote this:
This for me are major issues. I am using water shoes oversized with socks when temperature is pretty low (in the range of minus 5 to 15 degree centigrade) the lack of ventilation is then helping to keep the temp of the feet.Quote:
But it is a downside that they are poorly ventilated, and I really wish I could find some specimens that were much wider in the front to keep my toes from being pulled together. But this is a problem with almost all shoes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skids
Ian you could always see if Naked Ape in Sheffield have any test 5fingers, they seem to be the main stockist in the North.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
I did see a lad running on roads today in 5fingers through Anniesland-Glasgow.
I'll try them TaQuote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
Are you sure the lad just hadn't had his shoes pinched:D
Well I bough a pair of VFF classics and luved them so then got a pair of the KSO liked them also.
Yesterday I got a pair of Treks thay are just fantastic.
More grip than the others on wet grass and mud . A little less feel under foot which for me is good as I use them on some very rough trails.
I wear £6 canvas shoes at work, go barefooted at home and wear the classics out to the gym etc,
Have been using the F lite as a transition shoe but also run on the trails and road in the KSO, if your only going to get one pair go for the Treks and get someone to bring them in from the states for you as I did.
Where did you get your Treks from Loon?
I thought they weren't being stocked in the UK until next year?
He says in his post that he got them from the States
Well spotted Richard.
Yea got them from sports city in New York and hand carried back.
Their are folks on the Vibram five finger birthdayshoes site site willing to purchase for you and ship to you as a gift and you pay them via paypal.
Bloody good idea! Sending as a gift means you don't have to pay extra, right? Did you find the Treks came up the same size as your KSO's?
Also Loon Dod how much did you pay for the Treks?
Is the grip much better on the Treks than the KSO's
I paid $125 USD for them.
From City Sports in New York.
Yea the grip is much better on wet grass and mud.
I have Classics, KSOs and Treks all in a 43.
the toe box in the classics is perfect but the shoe feels a little big.
The toe box in the KSO is bigger (pinkie slips out easy) but shoe is a better fit.
The Trek toe box is snugger than the KSO but not as tight as the Classic.
The shoe its self is snugger than the KSO.
So instead of going up a size as sugested I stayed with same size as felt the classics were a tad on the big side, seems to have worked out ok.
Hope you can follow that.
Its a lot easier to get toes in the Treks as I think the material is stiffer
As for feel the Treks win hands down the Kangaroo leather is spot on.
Loon Dod thanks for that
That makes them about £77 at the present exchange rate which is good