New safety rules

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LissaJous

Was that already in the rules back then? (One would presume so..)

Some on here seem to think route markers are a bad idea because they are not a 100% guarantee of safety. I get really confused, the only 100% guarantee of safety (which I actually did on the day in question last year rather than racing in Wales) is to stay at home and hope you don't fall off a ladder.

Does a marked route (and thank you to WP for expanding on that) guarantee 100% safety? No, of course not, and as you can see from the other UK mountain running death last year (during a race in Greece).

Would it, on balance, have helped at Buttermere last year? Quite possibly a yes.

Could marking of crucial sections be another bad-weather option for ROs? Fellrunners don't see it that way, apparently.

Even if that meant the only alternative was cancellation? We don't cancel races 'cos we're not in Wales

And I know that others believe flagged routes would encourage the wrong kind of people to race. I don't see why all races have to be alike (marked, unmarked), or why some parties take the prospect of any race being marked as such a threat.

---

Love the colour coding :). But like AI said if you're suffering/injured/hypothemic its at that point that you might purposely choose to leave the route of the race, whether flagged or not, just to get off the hill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alwaysinjured

It was only an idea, not even one that appeals much to me. I like clag races.


Which would you rather if given a choice? Bad weather cancellation , low level route, or the normal route but done as a group?

---

I know AI and I've been wholly supportive of you on this thread. .. . just not on this point ;)

And which option would I choose... ?? option 4 - run the race as intended ala The Great Lakes last year ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard123

I know AI and I've been wholly supportive of you on this thread. .. . just not on this point ;)

And which option would I choose... ?? option 4 - run the race as intended ala The Great Lakes last year ;)

---

Yes. The Great Lakes race last year was an absolutely fantastic outing, one of the best ever in fact (says he as one of the herberts who went to far to the south coming over Stonesty Pike, effectively off my Pete Bland race map, and ended up doing a roundabout trudge to the finish via Wrynose and Blea Tarn).

Haha. . a few did that I think, but isn't that what racing is all about? making your own choices, suffering the consequences ;)

I wish I had a transcript or tape of the race briefing though . .. bloody brilliant!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

Yes. The Great Lakes race last year was an absolutely fantastic outing, one of the best ever in fact (says he as one of the herberts who went to far to the south coming over Stonesty Pike, effectively off my Pete Bland race map, and ended up doing a roundabout trudge to the finish via Wrynose and Blea Tarn).

---

OOpss.

Every year some manage that on the langdale race too , by failing to hang a sharp left after the last crinkle.

In fact you can tell how claggy it was on a langdale race day ,by how many come in from places like cockley beck and three shires.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LissaJous

Was that already in the rules back then? (One would presume so..)

Some on here seem to think route markers are a bad idea because they are not a 100% guarantee of safety. I get really confused, the only 100% guarantee of safety (which I actually did on the day in question last year rather than racing in Wales) is to stay at home and hope you don't fall off a ladder.

Does a marked route (and thank you to WP for expanding on that) guarantee 100% safety? .

---

The event was a multi-leg relay and I can't recall under whose rules it was run. The route was marked....tape on poles about 100 metres apart. By the time the leg was run, viz was down to 10 metres..............

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alwaysinjured

You are making a but of an assumption: Not convinced it would have helped at Buttermere because reading from the coroners report, it was considered a probable deliberate off route descent to get down off high ground, just done in an unfortunate place. So routefinding marked or otherwise may have played no part in it.

Not sure what you meant about the other runner...the trackers said he was hours off route at the point he fell, so routefinding may have had some hand in it.

---

My point was that the race in Greece was not (as far as I can ascertain) supposed to be nav. It was a case of a marked/obvious route gone wrong.

1991/1992; I only meant the map/compass rule (quite possibly not obligatory if it was a short, marked relay leg).

If you're in trouble the last thing you'd want to do is head away from a marked route and any likelihood of being found/helped by other runners/reaching a CP/ or being rescued. Of course hypothermia may affect decision making/rationality. Even on an unmarked route, in the circumstances I would want to stay on the race route unless already lost/unsure of direction, or just possibly if desperate for shelter from the weather. That would only change if I was very sure of it being an escape option. Same if you're on your own in the mountains and something happens, you don't want to be away from recognized paths/routes, especially if you don't have a phone/signal. A marked course should simply reinforce this being the safe place to go.

The flags in a Skyrace will often be eg every 10 metres anywhere there is a big chance of losing the way, or serious consequences.

Please don't get the impression I am on a mission in favour of marked courses; I don't have a problem with them, but yes I love unmarked courses on distinctive mountain routes, preferably when the weather's good and I have had a chance to recce. But don't expect a race to be an International favourite on those terms.

I'm much more concerned about people (not) carrying warm clothing in severe weather conditions.

I don't want to see more route markers in races. I find it hard to see red flags and tape because I'm red/green colour blind. And 8% of men with Northern European ancestry are too. Running down the intake fields to the finish of the Turner Landscape Race I nearly tripped over a couple of flags before I saw them, and I managed to miss a number of flags on the Loughrigg race when I was supposed to pick them up on the way back from marshaling on the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LissaJous

I don't understand the distrust of marked routes. If after a minute you can't see any flags, then at worst you're lost by a minute, and you know to backtrack until you find some markers again.

---

You must run with higher calibre runners than me. One particular runner went off route following someone else, nobody including the runners in question actually knows where they went. But they ran without markers for 20 minutes before turning round, and they didn't double back either.

The very same individual got lost briefly on his next race, and for the hat trick got so lost on the following race he arrived at the finish by car.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don't fear the sweeper

I don't want to see more route markers in races. I find it hard to see red flags and tape because I'm red/green colour blind. And 8% of men with Northern European ancestry are too. Running down the intake fields to the finish of the Turner Landscape Race I nearly tripped over a couple of flags before I saw them, and I managed to miss a number of flags on the Loughrigg race when I was supposed to pick them up on the way back from marshaling on the top.

---

I was going to bring up that point but thought it'd be too much of a minority point to count! I too am red/green colour blind and struggle following red tape even in the clear daylight.