Edale Skyline Fell Race

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Originally Posted by IainR

Do we know if grump organises a race?

I remember the great Breezey telling me I was wrong because the person I was arguing with was an international runner, who had won races, therefore I was wrong.. I pointed out I'd ran internationally and won races... so now its you must organise a race to hold a view.. winter paddy buckley's.. ML's... Winning races' international runner.. all irrelevant unless we now organise a race.. then what will it be.. must have served on the FRA committee.. then what... goal posts..

I'm going to organise one on the sand dunes at Warnemunde just so I can have a say on the forum.. :-)

Honestly if the grump is so sure on their view.. use a name like the rest of us do.. the mans a coward.. pure and simple.. what does he bring to the forum but slights at people? when was his last positive post? Age... too often brings bitterness.. when did he last help out other runners, we all put back into the sport helping out advice, support on rounds.. what does he do exactly? f all..

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Get a room, you two.

I propose a new thread "The Iain and Grump argument". :)

Just looked on DCC's Snow report and found that, as of 7am this morning:-
the following roads remain closed.

• A53 Buxton to Leek.
• A54/A537 Cat and Fiddle Buxton to Macclesfield.
• A57 Snake Pass in the High Peak.
• A515 Ashbourne Road in the High Peak.
• A515 Newhaven to Endmoor Corner.
• A5270 Coalpit Lane, Chelmorton near Buxton.
• A6024 towards Holme Moss.
• A618 between Killamarsh and Clowne.
• A623 Chapel to Housley
• A624 Chinley Head, between Chinley and Hayfield.
• A6 Buxton to Chapel and Buxton to Taddington.
• B5047 Whaley Bridge to Macclesfield.
• B6105 towards Woodhead Pass.
• Chesterfield Road, Rowsley.
• High Lane, Glossop.
• Derbyshire Level, Glossop.
• The Dale, Hathersage.
• Monks Road, Glossop and High Lane, Simmondley
• Cemetery Road, Hadfield.
• Martinside, Dove Holes in the High Peak.
• Small Dale to Peak Forest Village
• Mam Nick Road in the High Peak.
• Buxton Old Road, Stonedge Whaley Bridge.
• Rushup Edge in the High Peak.
• Winnats Pass, Castleton.
• Tor Side in the High Peak.

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Originally Posted by TheGrump

And you are?

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... slightly less of a self important, attention seeking coward than you, I suspect.

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Originally Posted by noel

get a room, you two.

I propose a new thread "the iain and grump argument". :)

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Haha :D

Went for a run up to Shelf Moor this afternoon. Conditions were awful with the wind towards you and where the snow has drifted. Running the Skyline today would have been extremely difficult.

Well anyway, as this thread is about a fell race it might be nice to move away from sniping and name calling for a short time...


I've seen some great photos and video from around the Peak District from over the weekend. Conditions on roads and fell both truly shocking.

I heard reports that Jude Jepson and Heather Marshal ran from the start of the route to win hill - they took 2 hours to do that! Which leads me to think that no one would have made the cut off at Mam Nic... It's almost a shame that we couldn't have had a Championship race where the ENTIRE field was timed out!

I'm currently thinking about and discussing what happens next. As you will imagine there are a lot of options and the facts will be confirmed as soon as possible.

There is a couple of things I think its worth clarifying:

1 - What ever happens there will be two long counters in the championships this year.

2 - There are a few references earlier in this thread to 'the forum' pressurising me to do X, or not to do Y. Sorry but no, I had a clear set of criteria on which to make the decision about the race going ahead or not. Some of these criteria were in the public domain, others weren't. There was obviously pressure (loads of it actually!) but it wasn't coming from here - remember ladies and gents, this forum stuff, its just opinion turned into words on a screen...



In the meantime let the conjecture and speculation commence :wink: its fun to read it!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

That looks a little chilly but quite artistic ;)

Thanks for keeping us all up to date on what's happening Ian and also for being a voice of sanity amongst some hot headed forum action (which was quite entertaining to read after a hard day teaching workshops yesterday).

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Originally Posted by Toreador

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

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Originally Posted by Hes

.......... and also for being a voice of sanity amongst some hot headed forum action (which was quite entertaining to read after a hard day teaching workshops yesterday).

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I presume you mean the ejits?

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Originally Posted by IanFitz

Well anyway, as this thread is about a fell race it might be nice to move away from sniping and name calling for a short time...

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Coward! ;)

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Originally Posted by IanFitz

In the meantime let the conjecture and speculation commence :wink: its fun to read it!

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To prevent the weather being able to ruin the replacement event, the FRA committee has decided to hold the event on programmable treadmills. Apparently the approved programme can be uploaded to most models, as long as they have an incline function. This means people can do it in the local gym or even the comfort of your own home. The "route" is exactly the same as the Skyline and you can run it any time over the next four months. Full kit will need to be carried and as will any water other than at the virtual Mam Nick. After last year's event, the committee have asked that all litter (eg, empty energy gels) must be removed from the gym after the event.

Well as the World Championship x country races had the snow removed from the course and replaced with woodchippings today nothing would surprise me ;-)

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Originally Posted by Mark Smith

Nipped out onto my local Clwydians today which are of comparable altitude to the skyline route (a touch lower). I was in waist deep drifts at 900' and at 1200' I had to turn back as it was impassible.

I was thinking of the skyline of 2007 and that evil wind as I ran and how borderline that was. Today was another league again - astounding for march and I've never seen that much snow on my local hills at any time of year. A day for winter mountaineering perhaps, but not running

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Hi Mark

Just dug ourselves out a bit and made it down to the Goldie! The easterly gale of the last few days blew most of the snow down to us! I was sceptical about the Excalibur being called off yesterday but then came this. Would you run along this well used trail - might be about head height for you?

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Originally Posted by noel

To prevent the weather being able to ruin the replacement event, the FRA committee has decided to hold the event on programmable treadmills. Apparently the approved programme can be uploaded to most models, as long as they have an incline function. This means people can do it in the local gym or even the comfort of your own home. The "route" is exactly the same as the Skyline and you can run it any time over the next four months. Full kit will need to be carried and as will any water other than at the virtual Mam Nick. After last year's event, the committee have asked that all litter (eg, empty energy gels) must be removed from the gym after the event.

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Watch out for the breakaway Real FRA though, just for proper fellrunners. They cancel their events if the weather's too good, 'cos what would the point be? :p I'll stick with our trusty original FRA myself.

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Originally Posted by RaceTheSweeper

Well as the World Championship x country races had the snow removed from the course and replaced with woodchippings today nothing would surprise me ;-)

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They should have had it in a dome ;)

They even postponed the Loughborough half marathon if that makes people feel any better. All that gritting made the roads hellishly damp.

I like Noels idea, but I don't have a treadmill with an incline function so might just have to rest it on a shoe box.

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Originally Posted by L.F.F.

just have to rest it on a shoe box.

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But you would loose time moving the box from the front to the back for the Win Hill descent.

Under soil heating is the only way to go for these early in the season fell races :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

But you would loose time moving the box from the front to the back for the Win Hill descent.

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Might be easier just to take my treadmill to Win Hill.

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Originally Posted by Alf

Under soil heating is the only way to go for these early in the season fell races :rolleyes:

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Oh come on think of the environment won't you! I had tried to get the local Cub Scouts Troop to dig out the racing line on the course but they flat out refused and were prattling on about risk assessment this, duty of care that, blah, blah...

Honestly. The youth of today, I despair!

:wink:

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Originally Posted by Welsh Harrier

Hi Mark

Just dug ourselves out a bit and made it down to the Goldie! The easterly gale of the last few days blew most of the snow down to us! I was sceptical about the Excalibur being called off yesterday but then came this. Would you run along this well used trail - might be about head height for you?

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Excalibur was a good call I think, especially with the entry crowd beings slightly different to that of similar events. I got stuck in waist high drifts on the wilds of the Cheshire Plains for goodness sake - 500 of your English feet high - wading and post-holing for minutes on end just to make a few yards progress. Always a tough decision calling something off and you've got to be sympathetic - I see your races are mostly summer eh, Martin :)

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Originally Posted by noel

Coward! ;)

To prevent the weather being able to ruin the replacement event, the FRA committee has decided to hold the event on programmable treadmills. Apparently the approved programme can be uploaded to most models, as long as they have an incline function. This means people can do it in the local gym or even the comfort of your own home. The "route" is exactly the same as the Skyline and you can run it any time over the next four months. Full kit will need to be carried and as will any water other than at the virtual Mam Nick. After last year's event, the committee have asked that all litter (eg, empty energy gels) must be removed from the gym after the event.

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Do you need a dry ice machine to replicate the clag being down??

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Originally Posted by Alf

Under soil heating is the only way to go for these early in the season fell races :rolleyes:

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Perhaps Cumbria County Council need to rethink their opposition to that nuclear waste depository? Just a thought...!!;)

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Originally Posted by Hobbsy

Perhaps Cumbria County Council need to rethink their opposition to that nuclear waste depository? Just a thought...!!;)

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An image of lots of glowing runners scampering over Fairfield just flashed through my mind ;). No one lost & a built in full kit requirement.

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Originally Posted by RaceTheSweeper

An image of lots of glowing runners scampering over Fairfield.

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Would lead underpants get added to the kit requirements?

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Would lead underpants get added to the kit requirements?

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Wouldn't lead undies be heavier than all the kit I was going to make people carry anyway? :wink:

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Originally Posted by IanFitz

Wouldn't lead undies be heavier than all the kit I was going to make people carry anyway? :wink:

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No, the 2013 version is ultra thin and light, I find them very comfortable :w00t:

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

No, the 2013 version is ultra tin and light, I find them very comfortable :w00t:

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Haha, I wonder how many twists, turns and diversions this thread has in it's 67 pages!

ANyway I'm going now. My mother always told me never to talk about tin foil pants with strange men I don't know...

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Originally Posted by noel

To prevent the weather being able to ruin the replacement event, the FRA committee has decided to hold the event on programmable treadmills.

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The FRA would need to change their navigation course to incorporate this latest trend.

Some people would still get lost by programming in the wrong course.

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Originally Posted by Maggie May

Good decision and nice n early too. Thanks. Let's hope its rearranged on a nice sunny day!

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Does this mean that the results are in order of first to get an entry in?

EDALE SKYLINE: Race cancellation info - part 1

The below is a copy of the email which has today been sent to everyone who entered the event this year so parts of it may affect people in different ways. Its ended up being quite long, please read it carefully...



As you all know we were left with no choice other than to cancel the Skyline on Saturday morning; the many images, video and reports of road and fell conditions from the weekend leaves no doubt that this was the correct thing to do!

So we are left with a lot of questions about what happens next…



RACE FEE

A number of people have been in touch to say their race fee should be used to cover costs with the remainder given to Edale MRT. Unfortunately a cancellation just the day before means we are already committed to many costs. Although I have negotiated to reduce as many as possible.

What I propose is working out the costs we have incurred up to now; once these are met I will issue out a partial refund which will come back through the Sportident system some time in the next few weeks. It is likely that the amount refunded would be between £5 and £7, but this is still to be confirmed. We are working with sportident to offer an option for you to donate the remainder of the entry fee to Edale MRT - IF you choose to do so. This would be an opt in donation.

A further email will be sent out once we have this system in place. This will also contain information for those people who would like a full refund.

Just to be clear, people who cancelled their entries prior to the event have already donated their fee to Edale MRT as explained in the race information.



CHAMPIONSHIP RACE - LONG COUNTER

The FRA have made it clear that there WILL be two long races this year. Because Edale falls so early in the season there would be no difficulty in using another long race later in the season. I understand they have this race already identified.



However IF the Edale Skyline could be rearranged for later in the year it would remain in the championship series.

I am currently looking into the feasibility of this; bearing in mind that it effectively means starting the whole RO process from scratch, it is obviously to something to be undertaken lightly! Organising one Champs race in a year is a big task, but organising two of them…

The date that impacts the least on significant national and other local events is Sunday 29th September.



ENTRIES…

IF this was to happen I would start from again from the beginning - including entries. I realise that this will displease many people who were on the start list for Sundays race, but my rationale for this is as follows:

Many people had withdrawn from the race before entries closed due to injury, work commitments etc. based on the race being in March.
A large number of other people had offered their places for substitution due to the above
Many people heeded my advice regarding the likely conditions in the week leading up to the race and cancelled their entries therefore others were invited from the waiting list.
I can't afford to put two races on for one race fee so would need people to re-enter and pay again…
709 people had been on the start list at some stage; but only 500 can run on the day - if i was to use the current entry data where would I 'draw the line'?
Based on the above it seems that the fairest course of action would be to start again with a blank page…

Believe me, if you knew just how much work it is to process the entries (even using the efficiency that Sportident provides) you would understand that I have not made this decision lightly. For example I have had just over 1000 (yes, a thousand!) emails about the race since January. The majority of those were about entries.



IF the race was to be put on in September I would do similar to last time. Majority of places on a first-come, first-served basis, with enough kept back for 'people who can demonstrate they are likely to challenge for championship points in any age category.' Entries would most likely open in early July to avoid lots of people being away due to school holidays.



Having spoken to people within Dark Peak, I THINK there is the will to go with the September option, but this is absolutely not a final decision. I am telling you all about this possibility so you can put the potential date in your diaries as early as you can.



Please do not email to ask further questions at his stage - all the information I currently have is above and I have nothing to add. Further information will be announce via the skyline page at www.dpfr.org.uk and other social media sources.



Finally I'd like to thank the many people who have sent kind words my way over the last few days. I have very high expectations of myself and always try to do my best so it is great to know that this has been appreciated by people. I've not had the time to reply to any of you directly but THANKS!



Cheers



Ian Fitzpatrick, RO 2013

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Originally Posted by IanFitz

EDALE SKYLINE: Race cancellation info - part 1

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That makes perfect sense, I don't think anyone could argue against anything you've said there.

Personally I'd be very pleased with a rearranged race for September, especially with opening entries from the beginning again - I didn't have an entry for last weekend due to injury but should be fit and well enough in September! :D

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Originally Posted by IanFitz

EDALE SKYLINE: Race cancellation info - part 1


The FRA have made it clear that there WILL be two long races this year. Because Edale falls so early in the season there would be no difficulty in using another long race later in the season. I understand they have this race already identified.

Cheers

Ian Fitzpatrick, RO 2013

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You may have let the cat out of the bag here Ian as there will be plenty of wild speculation as to which one it will be.
So I will start the ball rolling with my favourites :sneaky:

Helvellyn/Dodds
Langdale Horseshoe

CHAMPIONSHIP RACE - LONG COUNTER

The FRA have made it clear that there WILL be two long races this year. Because Edale falls so early in the season there would be no difficulty in using another long race later in the season. I understand they have this race already identified.



However IF the Edale Skyline could be rearranged for later in the year it would remain in the championship series.

I am currently looking into the feasibility of this; bearing in mind that it effectively means starting the whole RO process from scratch, it is obviously to something to be undertaken lightly! Organising one Champs race in a year is a big task, but organising two of them…

The date that impacts the least on significant national and other local events is Sunday 29th September.

I was gutted about the cancellation as I knew running this last weekend was my only chance of squeezing in the long counter this year.
Can you just clarify Ian. If Edale is re run, will the other identified race still be an English Champs counter ( making 3 possible long counters this year?) OR will it only be a counter if Edale is not re arranged? I will personally be gutted if the only option is 29th September as it clashes with the English Schools Fell Running Champs that I know I will have to attend and therefore I wont be able to make Wasdale nor Edale part 2. As the calander has been so disrupted due to the weather this year could FRA consider giving us a third long option? to allows those with difficult to manage diaries to have a chance of completing a Champs calander?

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Originally Posted by Corniceman

I was gutted about the cancellation as I knew running this last weekend was my only chance of squeezing in the long counter this year.
Can you just clarify Ian. If Edale is re run, will the other identified race still be an English Champs counter ( making 3 possible long counters this year?) OR will it only be a counter if Edale is not re arranged? I will personally be gutted if the only option is 29th September as it clashes with the English Schools Fell Running Champs that I know I will have to attend and therefore I wont be able to make Wasdale nor Edale part 2. As the calander has been so disrupted due to the weather this year could FRA consider giving us a third long option? to allows those with difficult to manage diaries to have a chance of completing a Champs calander?

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Sorry don't know the answer to that, as I don't represent or speak on behalf of the FRA. I'm just someone who organises a race which is counted in their Championships. I would guess that there is no way there would be three long counters. The new date for Edale will be announced with about 6 months notice giving plenty of time for people to get it in their diaries and prioritise accordingly.

I've tried to make the best out of a difficult situation but it is inevitable that with any re-scheduling there will be some people who will be dis-appointed.

I realise the schools champs are that weekend but took the view that no one would be able to compete in both anyway (as skyline is 18+)

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Originally Posted by IanFitz

S The new date for Edale will be announced with about 6 months notice giving plenty of time for people to get it in their diaries and prioritise accordingly.

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So we should know in a day or 2 :thumbup:

I popped up to the top of Jacob's Ladder this morning to retrieve the bottle I stashed. Either someone beat me to it, or I didn't dig deep enough into the soft snow, as I couldn't find it.

Conditions up there were much gentler than on Sunday when I gave up my run around the western edge due to excessively painful spin-drift.

After Jacob's Ladder I went on to Pt. 636m, then to Kinder Gates intending to follow the Kinder River out to the Downfall. This wasn't quite so easy as I thought - there were plenty of deep, soft drifts. I was then somewhat surprised to meet 5 youngish blokes (mid 20s) with high-vis jackets. They were NT workers who'd been told by the NT that conditions were 'workable' today!! They seemed pretty cheerful, anyway.

Finally, a big thank you to Ian Fitz and all his helpers for trying their very best to put the race on.

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Originally Posted by GeoffB

After Jacob's Ladder I went on to Pt. 636m, then to Kinder Gates intending to follow the Kinder River out to the Downfall. This wasn't quite so easy as I thought - there were plenty of deep, soft drifts. I was then somewhat surprised to meet 5 youngish blokes (mid 20s) with high-vis jackets. They were NT workers who'd been told by the NT that conditions were 'workable' today!! They seemed pretty cheerful, anyway.

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Alison and I were up there this aft, and, when we topped out of Red Brook, we bumped into Duncan (KMRT) who told us about the NT chaps. Apparently when they got their huge "heather bits" bale open, it was just a block of icy vegetation! They were supposed to be planting this stuff. Think they gave up and went to the pub!

U

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Originally Posted by Alf

You may have let the cat out of the bag here Ian as there will be plenty of wild speculation as to which one it will be.
So I will start the ball rolling with my favourites :sneaky:

Helvellyn/Dodds
Langdale Horseshoe

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Not seeking to let any cats out of bags (actually I'm a dog person so them cars can stay in the bags for all I care!)

Was just saying that the FRA reps I have been speaking to throughout all this have not only supported and backed me very well, they have a clear plan in place either way.

However don't let me get in the way of some quaility speculation! It's all good fun ;-)

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Originally Posted by IanFitz

However don't let me get in the way of some quaility speculation! It's all good fun ;-)

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Let's apply some logic here and watch how wrong I am. :)

It has to be in England and be an AL. It's not going to be in the next 3 months. So...

Duddon clashes with Yetholm
Ennerdale's too close to Yetholm and Buckden
Great Lakes was last year
Bradda is on the IOM
Buttermere is the first year
Wasdale's already in
Holme Moss clashes
Borrowdale was last year
Howtown isn't organised by a club so might not want it
Sedbergh Hills - Could be
Exterminator - Could be. But I don't think it's regarded as "felly" enough - sorry Totley :)
Three Shires - too close after Peris
IOM Mountain - it's on the IOM
Langdale - Could be
Tour of Pendle - too late to award prizes?

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Originally Posted by noel

Let's apply some logic here and watch how wrong I am. :) It has to be in England and be an AL. It's not going to be in the next 3 months. So... Duddon clashes with Yetholm Ennerdale's too close to Yetholm and Buckden Great Lakes was last year Bradda is on the IOM Buttermere is the first year Wasdale's already in Holme Moss clashes Borrowdale was last year Howtown isn't organised by a club so might not want it Sedbergh Hills - Could be Exterminator - Could be. But I don't think it's regarded as "felly" enough - sorry Totley :) Three Shires - too close after Peris IOM Mountain - it's on the IOM Langdale - Could be Tour of Pendle - too late to award prizes?

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You only need one counter... I also think due to the exceptional circumstances.. borrowdale could be added.. perfect timing... I'd actually go for Edale MKII.. Or just use a non english counter... the Peris.. in everyones calendar anyway..

I have always found Totley Terminator, Tormentor, Exterminator, surprisingly hard but you are right, not enough fell or 'adventure' to count.