Pertex Tops?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

I'm certainly not argueing the point re running in pertex just the theory that cheap jacket is sufficent when it all goes wrong, may be if you can still walk etc. but cheap jackets have limitations they have to save money some where so smaller head cover, non water proof cheap zips, even moving slowly you still sweat. A £10 waterproof may suffice for a short race but for a lakeland race where navigation is required in bad weather or a big day out in big hills I believe it's dubious at least.

I've been a hillwalker/climber, for 35 years, an Mountain leader for 10 years and in the MR for 5 years, as a ML/MR I regularly have to move much slower than I would do when out by myself. I'm more than glad that I have a decent waterproof/thermals, I have a NF ProGore jacket for Ml work which is not much heavier than a Kamilika, I've used this on BG support in torrential rain and finished 6 hours out relatively dry(not so others who whilst warm as we've been moving wouldn't be if we had to stop or go slow) and a big heavy jacket(not Gore) for MR work. I've also ran numerous Outdoor retailers so I know what sort of Garment is fit for what purpous.
Ask your self why proffesionals who spend all there time out on the hills in all weathers don't wear cheap waterproof?
I'm not questioning your hill craft but saying cheap is sufficient(when all goes wrong) sets a dangerous precedent to perhaps novice hill users.

thats my thoughts any way...:)

Ian - see your point but I still think we are looking at it from differing perspectives. I think in running my expectation is to move quickly in the mountains for however long I plan to be out and a waterproof is then a safety net which I hope not to need but which will do the minimum job required if I do. In other activities such as MR my experience is that we actually expect to be out for long unspecified periods of time in foul conditions and that we might well expect to spend part of that time stationary - dealing with casualties, on belays etc and I think then its worth spending the money on some top quality kit - unless your team is fortunate enough to be able to provide it for you, which most seem to be able to nowadays, in which case they have hopefully done that and you aren't in a team issue pac a mac! I think the same applies to a lot of general mountain activites, especially in the winter - if you know you are going to be moving slowly, dealing with a group, standing on a cold belay or just stopping for lunch (not usually a fell running activity) then I totally agree that warmer and drier kit is well worth having.
I'm not advocating always just running in pertex regardless, there are times when the only really 'sensible' decision is to stay at home, and then I use a Mountain Hardwear cag thats pretty bombproof but reasonably light and with lots of venting, especially for longer/higher trips out - but I dont think it keeps me any drier than pertex unless I'm standing about or going slowly when a cheaper cag would probably do an adequate job - worn over the pertex in some situations.
I suppose it boils down (for me at least) to reasonably expecting not to be stopped but prepared to accept that the solution I am carrying isn't perfect if I am and accepting that I will be very cold and very uncomfortable but hopefully not to a life threatening extent on the one hand, and on the other knowing and expecting that I'm going to be slow/stopped/having a picnic and wanting to be warm dry and comfortable during a long period on the hill.

Mark