Steam Bunny Bluff

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

No mate. GPS trackers use satellites not mobile phone masts. Just like yer garmin watch.

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Now I am getting confused.

Wheeze - That link you gave to opentracking as far as I an aware uses trackers that collect gps satellite data but transmit it at mobile Frequency bands, which is why they use network hopping and all the problems there.So do need mobile mast connection, though dont use it for triangulating.

To be fair to howfast the performance has improved with development in the harsh testbed of BGs last summer, but the base technology cannot transmit, only collect in radio shadow, so has problems for your kind of safety trackng.

I also emailed you information about gps satellite collect trackers that also Transmit back over the bands that satellite phones use sending the data back via satellites, so it works even in high himalaya and places with no mobile coverage at all, and doubles as a text information service. The cheapo devices in that market dont have a great reputation, but the one I mention does seem to get good reviews.

Also suggested the economics of buying them to loan out to races, something I might consider helping to fund which makes economic sense at £4 person race, which is viable at £10 race entry still, provided that (say) 30 races a year would use them.

Once proven I think the demand would be high, so might be willing to buy one for people to try.

Been out testing the tech and the course this weekend.
Trackers seem to be viable.
I have decided to use radio to link HQ and the safety refuges. I don't want to introduce too much new-fangledness at once!
Anyway, route out from Hay is viable...a few kissing gates in lower fields will need to be lifted off their hinges for a couple of minutes whilst field goes out to prevent bunching but that's all....a job for some local volunteers. There's a couple of places in the first mile where people could go wrong (I did it at walking pace!) so a thorough recce by leaders will be needed.

The upland section of the course is excellent. The drop down to Capel Y Ffin is easy thank goodness.
The drop down to Northern Grywne reservoir is also straightforward with a boundary fence to guide you into the gulley and back out and then a simple pull up to Twyn Talycefn.
Ed, the fences you mentioned are not a problem. As you approach the reservoir simply keep the boundary fence on your right, cross the steam just above the little pumping house, ascend along the right side of the fence then cross over when you reach the gate at a track and carry on ascending with the fence now on your left. Brings to a little stream which you can follow most of the way up to the ridge.

I have decided to remove the Rhos Dirion checkpoint, so the next checkpoint after Twyn Talycefn is Lord Herefords Knob. This simplifies the course marking and slightly shortens the race whilst taking no m ore than 11 metres of climb out.

Will post some route pics soon.

Progress! Website is now being put together, planning to go live by Easter.
Once up, I really welcome comments so it can be improved.
Have been discussing comms with AI and like the idea of satellite phones rather than radio to link HQ and SR's.
Has anyone got any experience of using sat phones?? Please help.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Has anyone got any experience of using sat phones?? Please help.

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They were used in The Long Way Round/Down/Race to Dakar. If they are good enough for going round the world they are probably good enough for a fell race.

Another view is that they are currently too expensive. Has anyone actually used them?

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Another view is that they are currently too expensive. Has anyone actually used them?

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Yes we have a couple in the rescue team. they are expensive and use up lots of power.

they have been replaced though by airwave sets though which are brilliant. I was guiding in Scotland for a police group doing a nat 3pks and they called their mates on it.....in Brighton!!!

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Yes we have a couple in the rescue team. they are expensive and use up lots of power.

they have been replaced though by airwave sets though which are brilliant. I was guiding in Scotland for a police group doing a nat 3pks and they called their mates on it.....in Brighton!!!

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Expensive needs putting into context.

Excess call rates on airwave are 2 pounds a second even for organisations that do have access and police forces were screaming about it a couple of years ago to the point of telling officers to text not talk. It was bought out by a PVC company, and I personally do not think such resource should be held by such a company. The context of airwave needs mentioning too which is intended for security and also data interrogation provision as well as voice ( which has in many regards failed) and call network intended for contract provision to emergency services. It is not intended for average joe as far as I am aware.

Sat has not been replaced by airwave it is a completely different network, which in essence still relies on the vagaries of UHF and microwave comms, but makes up for it with more repeater stations in wild places than mobile networks have.

Sat May be expensive in mob phone terms , but at least it has coverage without destroying environment as airwave has.

Tetra handsets are of course available but with normal band propagation limitations if used outside the airwave network.

And by the way, abuse of expensive public resources "calling mates" should be automatic disciplinary - since airwave has stretched police budgets.

From my brief inspection,I'm not sure TETRA/Airwave is a viable option for us at the moment. There seem to be as many against sat phones as there are for but so far no-one who has used them has dialled in!

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

From my brief inspection,I'm not sure TETRA/Airwave is a viable option for us at the moment. There seem to be as many against sat phones as there are for but so far no-one who has used them has dialled in!

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Without meaning to aggravate bad situations, as a responsible organisation FRA should be testing such things and new technology in general as part of their safety mandate, but without the central organisation doing that it will mean there is no experience of them. VHF radios is the mantra at present so that is what everyone does. Problem is of course VHF has quirks. VHF is line of site , gets ground interference patterns from multiple paths - so woods below the horizon can be a problem for example (and wind farms definitely are), attenuates heavily in damp conditions and thermal layering can curve waves uselessly up and away. In english money, the crapper the weather the less likely they are to work at all well!

So let us push the boat out! I will go halves with you funding a trial of a couple of sats and/or a smart phone linked tracker (whose location should be visible on IPAD mapping as far as I am aware) , wandering around parts of the course and seeing if we can communicate! Let's be pioneers!

yes, i think sat phones may be the way. call charges need watching but they are for short comms only.
i have added quite a lot of content to the website but i need to get some other things done.
1. A downloadable OS map of the route.
2. Pictures of the route.
3. finalise the online entry page.
Let me know what you think.