Ukip

The founder of UKIP seems to be regretting his part in proceedings. He recalls this conversation with Farage from 1997:

"He wanted ex-National Front candidates to run and I said, 'I'm not sure about that,' and he said, 'There's no need to worry about the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us.'"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/26/ukip-founder-alan-sked-party-become-frankensteins-mo...

. "If he [Farage] runs in South Thanet, his agent will be a man called Heale who was a National Front organiser in west London." Sked means Martyn Heale, Ukip's branch chairman in Thanet and former National Front branch organiser in Hammersmith. It was after Sked left that he was allowed to join Ukip, rising to become Farage's election agent in the 2005 general election.

So I would say they have a huge racist element... the anti-immigration anti EU guise is just a more politically correct version of out right racist shits.

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Originally Posted by IainR

No, my comments were in response to brightside saying we need to stop immigration..

Re ethical concerns.. Thats just closing them out, probably more good is done by letting them into work and money will return to their countries.

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You try telling that to the Filipino family whose breadwinner has just died because he couldn't get medical attention due to a chronic shortage of medical staff.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Why?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ritain-3610179

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The Mirror? Seriously!? ;)

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Originally Posted by IainR

This is a worst case scenario, but many companies will leave the UK overnight..

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I actually don't think this is true. If we were leaving the Euro then I would perhaps agree with you but the UK has a lot to offer in terms of innovation, high quality goods and it helps with us speaking english.

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Originally Posted by IainR

There are many issues with the UK, blaming immigrants for them is just very wrong, and very scary...

People should read the 'Britain First' page on Facebook...

There's just no policy to UKIP, leave Europe, then what? WHat about our national debt? Immigration needs (we do have them).. people moan about unskilled workers on the farms, but few are willing to go and do those jobs.. so would you be willing to pay more for produce?

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Iain, don't confuse immigration with unchecked immigration. If there is a shortage of workers in a particular area then these jobs can be filled in the same way as a non-EU migrant currently has to apply for residency.

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Originally Posted by IainR

In the US Bush wanted a big drive against immigrant farm workers and the wealthy farm owners pointed out that they could not farm without immigrants...

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So that would be an identified need....

I've personally never had problems with immigration; my reasons for wanting out of the EU are economic.

We'll see, its a very slow process, which is why the EU free market model developed, so you could quickly move workers to demand..

What do you think of the chances of a UKIP/Tory coalition after 2015? They'd probably walk the general election.. I think it could be a huge issue..

At the moment Cameron is saying no chance, but there is a lot of talk about it...

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Originally Posted by IainR

We'll see, its a very slow process, which is why the EU free market model developed, so you could quickly move workers to demand..

What do you think of the chances of a UKIP/Tory coalition after 2015? They'd probably walk the general election.. I think it could be a huge issue..

At the moment Cameron is saying no chance, but there is a lot of talk about it...

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I did economics in 1981 and studied the EEC as part of it. It was a free trade zone along the lines of EFTA. That is how it was sold by Heath to the British electorate.
It has taken on a new form since 1993 and Maastricht.

Interestingly when the UK applied to join and was initially blocked, Norway also applied. In Norway though the referendum went against joining.
So they signed free trade agreements. They have since had another failed referendum and have expanded their role as a free trade partner.

So I think if we do withdraw, the Europeans would not be so stupid as to not allow a trade agreement to be in place, specially as we have a trade deficit with the EU so any barriers would hit the EU member nations.

I can't see a UKIP / Tory coalition. I can't see how UKIP can get in to double figures with first past the post.
Labour and Tory are practically guaranteed 150 seats each with another 200 generally traded between them and I can see either Labour hitting the rocks and the Tories edging in or Labour scraping enough to form a Govt with the SNP, Plaid Cymru and maybe the Libdems if there are any left.

Interestingly Milliband just been on TV - "Immigration is the biggest issue facing us" - he's chasing the Danbert vote :D

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I did economics in 1981 and studied the EEC as part of it. It was a free trade zone along the lines of EFTA. That is how it was sold by Heath to the British electorate.
It has taken on a new form since 1993 and Maastricht.

Interestingly when the UK applied to join and was initially blocked, Norway also applied. In Norway though the referendum went against joining.
So they signed free trade agreements. They have since had another failed referendum and have expanded their role as a free trade partner.

So I think if we do withdraw, the Europeans would not be so stupid as to not allow a trade agreement to be in place, specially as we have a trade deficit with the EU so any barriers would hit the EU member nations.

I can't see a UKIP / Tory coalition. I can't see how UKIP can get in to double figures with first past the post.
Labour and Tory are practically guaranteed 150 seats each with another 200 generally traded between them and I can see either Labour hitting the rocks and the Tories edging in or Labour scraping enough to form a Govt with the SNP, Plaid Cymru and maybe the Libdems if there are any left.

Interestingly Milliband just been on TV - "Immigration is the biggest issue facing us" - he's chasing the Danbert vote :D

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I think we have to be VERY careful looking at non-EU countries like Norway and Switzerland as comparisons.. Norway have fish and oil.. Switzerland are the world's bankers because of their immoral no questions asked policy....

We'll see re coalitions, the LidDems didn't seem to sit well with the Tories but formed a working Government.. UKIP and the Tories sit closer, well in that they are right sided, but we don't really know what else UKIP stand for...

Independence for Scotland, should it happen which is probably what 20% chance? will also change the lay out of the land somewhat. You then take out the SNP seats.

TBH the main issue will be voter turnout, the ones who can mobilise best will get in, which is why UKIP have done well..

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Originally Posted by IainR

Are you seriously suggesting that immigrants do not prop up the NHS??

Check your history and your facts on immigrants in the NHS.. then post again...

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If you are saying they exist in the organisation in great numbers, i couldn't argue with you on that one. It's not an argument i want to dwell in anyway; as my original point was with regard to how the mass migration of semi/unskilled people, and illegal arrivals whom we seem to have no power to deal with, are straining the system. This wouldn't happen under UKIP, and will persist with any and all the main 3.

Iain, the UK is Germany's biggest trade partner bar none. There WILL be a free trade agreement should we leave the EU.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

If you are saying they exist in the organisation in great numbers, i couldn't argue with you on that one. It's not an argument i want to dwell in anyway; as my original point was with regard to how the mass migration of semi/unskilled people, and illegal arrivals whom we seem to have no power to deal with, are straining the system. This wouldn't happen under UKIP, and will persist with any and all the main 3.

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Which illegals??

Anyone from the EU is legal.. illegal immigration isn't a huge issue.. but thats a target for any party and would be just as much of an issue under UKIP..

There is no mass migration anyway.. people come for jobs, they don't come to claim money, all EU countries have their own welfare state and often cheaper cost of living..

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

Iain, the UK is Germany's biggest trade partner bar none. There WILL be a free trade agreement should we leave the EU.

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We'll have some, but we are also an Island state.. we have disadvantages anyway, I dont think we need anymore barriers to trade.

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Originally Posted by Stagger

If all they do is get us out of Europe that'll do fine.
It will be 1 more thing for the working classes.

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Off the top of my head;

What about the working classes who work for the foreign-owned manufacturers, who employ many thousands in this country who wouldn't have any reason to remain on these shores if we withdrew from Europe?

What about the working classes who work in Canary Wharf which wouldn't be able to keep it's position as the dominant financial centre if we withdrew from Europe?

What about the working classes who work for Airbus,making the wings in the U.K.?

What about are own home-grown exporters, how will they go on when the pound plunges against the euro when we withdraw from Europe

As our energy need is dependent on imported oil and gas, could we afford being on the end of the supply chain, at the mercy of speculators?