Brexit

No-one I've met has come up with any reason to leave the EU with any credibility or dare I say it, intelligence. Right wing jingoism, racism bluster and old folk chuttering about the time before Joss' sheepdog was a pup is all I hear. Let's hope we see sense or its god help us all

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

No-one I've met has come up with any reason to leave the EU with any credibility or dare I say it, intelligence. Right wing jingoism, racism bluster and old folk chuttering about the time before Joss' sheepdog was a pup is all I hear. Let's hope we see sense or its god help us all

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Whoever coined the expression "turkeys don't vote for Christmas" clearly hadn't met any Brexit supporters.

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

No-one I've met has come up with any reason to leave the EU with any credibility or dare I say it, intelligence. Right wing jingoism, racism bluster and old folk chuttering about the time before Joss' sheepdog was a pup is all I hear. Let's hope we see sense or its god help us all

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That's interesting because I've not heard anyone come up with any credible or intelligent reasons to stay in the EU, only rather witless and often very contradictory scaremongering.

There are plenty of reasons to leave. The best one is to re-assert parliamentary democracy, so that laws are made by people in this country who are elected and can be removed every five years if necessary and not by un-elected officials in Brussels who are accountable to nobody. Correction, not quite nobody, they do appear very well disposed to the legions of corporate lobbyists, who not surprisingly are such big cheerleaders of the EU.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

That's interesting because I've not heard anyone come up with any credible or intelligent reasons to stay in the EU, only rather witless and often very contradictory scaremongering.

There are plenty of reasons to leave. The best one is to re-assert parliamentary democracy, so that laws are made by people in this country who are elected and can be removed every five years if necessary and not by un-elected officials in Brussels who are accountable to nobody. Correction, not quite nobody, they do appear very well disposed to the legions of corporate lobbyists, who not surprisingly are such big cheerleaders of the EU.

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I'm confused by this assertion. I thought the European parliament was elected?

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Originally Posted by noel

I'm confused by this assertion. I thought the European parliament was elected?

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The European parliament rarely introduce any laws, it is basically a rubber stamping chamber. The body that introduces new legislation is the European Commission.

The last vote was to go in to the common market and look where that has got us.
Would you want another 35yr of this?

At some point the EU will end in tears, its inevitable. Its a case of do we cut our losses now or hang around and hope everything will turn out not too bad. Think the vote will be pretty tight but that the establishment scaremongering might just tip the balance to remain, a lot of people who actually would quite like to get out will be frightened into vote remain against their natural instincts.

Muddy, your point was the main one that made me a Leave voter until just a few days ago. I felt very strongly about the issue of democracy and the unelected nature of the European Commission. I try always to see the bigger picture and not get swayed by all the over emotive issues such as immigration and finances that are the fixation for the gutter press and small minded right and left wingers.

And so I see a bigger picture of a deranged Bear in the East who would like nothing more than a destabilized Europe in order to further his expansionist aims. And I realise that this is not the time to destabilise Europe with a self interested vote.

And so, although not wanting another 35 years of 'this', I'd rather that than encourage a naked aggressor. Think on.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

And so I see a bigger picture of a deranged Bear in the East who would like nothing more than a destabilized Europe in order to further his expansionist aims. And I realise that this is not the time to destabilise Europe with a self interested vote.

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I can understand your concerns but I think the question to ask would be if not now then when? It's 41 years since the people of this country were last allowed a say on their future in Europe and let's be honest, it will be a long long time before the establishment risks asking us again.

There are some in the EU who welcome a Brexit anyway since it would allow them to more closely integrate. If that is what they wish then they can do so without the British dissenting voice impeding them. An inner core may do so and perhaps other countries on the periphery such as the Scandinavian nations may in time join us in a much looser arrangement.

There is nothing at all to prevent us from cooperating with our European allies in the face of Russian aggression following Brexit. In fact why wouldn't we? We still have NATO after all.

We don't need to be in a political union to cooperate with fellow democratic countries. We have NATO as I mentioned plus the UK and France already cooperate bilaterally on military matters independently of the EU. On security issues our closest alliance is the "Five Eyes" agreement with the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. None of the other four are in the EU but we quite happily share intelligence information with them.

The EU started out as a noble idea in the post war world as a means to bring former enemies together but it is now well past its sell by date. Don't you think it is telling that no group of countries anywhere in the world wishes to copy the EU?

Have I done enough to persuade you back again?

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Originally Posted by noel

I'm confused by this assertion. I thought the European parliament was elected?

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and all those sitting in the house of lords; un-elected.