Championship Races 2023

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Originally Posted by benshep

Thanks for sharing the link. To me, that's a well thought out and reasoned consultation, r3ecommendations and survey. There will be a range of views and it is not possible to please everyone, so it is good to see that the rationale for change is explained and the survey is seemingly designed to gather information about preferences and priorities and not merely a choice between the two recommendations.

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I agree. I thought it was a useful illustration of the issues.

Like everyone else I have an opinion on what a Fell Running Championship should test and once upon a time I had some influence on that. Twenty years ago a championship which didn't include Wasdale or Duddon Valley etc wouldn't have been worthy of the name but times change and the task for MRAG is to come up with a formula that today's runners will turn up and support - and then to denote that formula as The Championship.

Purity is fine but it is usually trumped by pragmatism.

Whatever they do, i think its still going to be overshadowed by the English Championship, which i think the vast majority are still going to see as the "one to win".

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Originally Posted by ba-ba

Yes, front page of the FRA website, went up at the same time as the Faceache post. Should be sufficient to catch as many eyes as possible. It'll be bumped again a few times between now and end of March. Figured it'd make its way here pretty quickly anyway and the wider populace could drive the discussion.

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Hello Nic,

Are there plans to send out the survey by email or even post to FRA members? Will members be balloted? (I am not suggestion there is an obligation to do so.) Both proposals represent a fundamental change to the British Champs, so my concern is over consultation process.

Full disclosure of my own bias: I don’t favour either option & would actually prefer it remains as it is or increases to six (3 or 4 to count).

Another concern I have with proposal 2 is that it seems to heavily favour runners at English clubs. I am struggling to see how this will increase participation from NI, Wales & Scotland based clubs.

I do understand that a one or two race format may attract more runners & better prepare top level athletes for international competition, though I don’t think that’s what Champs races have to be all about.

I don’t doubt the good intentions of the MRAG & the FRA on this. It reads as a thoughtful & well considered proposal. My voice may well be a lonely one here - I am an also-ran who will be little impacted in a competitive sense, regardless of changes or not. Thanks for the hard work you & others do at the FRA.

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Originally Posted by Travs

Whatever they do, i think its still going to be overshadowed by the English Championship, which i think the vast majority are still going to see as the "one to win".

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Well in cycling proper riders win Grand Tours or the Classics but there is also the World Championship for those who can only sprint for a few hundred metres and bother to turn up on the day.

But the wearer of the rainbow jersey feels no shame and neither will future winners of British Championship medals.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Well in cycling proper riders win Grand Tours or the Classics but there is also the World Championship for those who can only sprint for a few hundred metres and bother to turn up on the day.

But the wearer of the rainbow jersey feels no shame and neither will future winners of British Championship medals.

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Maybe I'm not on the same wavelength as you with the term "classics" but I seem to remember a few of them being won by those who can only sprint for a few hundred metres and bothered to turn up ;)

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Well in cycling proper riders win Grand Tours or the Classics but there is also the World Championship for those who can only sprint for a few hundred metres and bother to turn up on the day.

But the wearer of the rainbow jersey feels no shame and neither will future winners of British Championship medals.

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Totally agree.... and i'll dine out on the fact that i managed a top 30 in a British Champs race for the rest of my days!

I think the one (or two) race proposals are a great idea as it will return the British Champs to an event with a consistently strong/elite field (as seen at the one-off race at Dufton a year or two back).

On a slightly different subject, i note that the Inter-Counties course is a purpose-designed route this year, designed to aid in selection of the British team for the Mountain World Champs.... whilst i totally understand the reasoning, and i absolutely love the Howgills, i think its a stretch to call it a genuine fell-racing course.

I've an outside chance of making our county team, and while if selected i'll wear the vest with great pride... but on a course which is basically a couple of laps around Winder and Arant Haw, i would really fear coming stone dead last with no proper climbs or descents to slow the cross-country guys down.

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Originally Posted by Travs

Totally agree.... and i'll dine out on the fact that i managed a top 30 in a British Champs race for the rest of my days!

I think the one (or two) race proposals are a great idea as it will return the British Champs to an event with a consistently strong/elite field (as seen at the one-off race at Dufton a year or two back).

On a slightly different subject, i note that the Inter-Counties course is a purpose-designed route this year, designed to aid in selection of the British team for the Mountain World Champs.... whilst i totally understand the reasoning, and i absolutely love the Howgills, i think its a stretch to call it a genuine fell-racing course.

I've an outside chance of making our county team, and while if selected I'll wear the vest with great pride... but on a course which is basically a couple of laps around Winder and Arant Haw, i would really fear coming stone dead last with no proper climbs or descents to slow the cross-country guys down.

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Interestingly back in (I think) 2011 I was asked if I could find somewhere with mainly dirt tracks.
Spec for men was 3 climbs, near 1800ft of climb over 12 km for the World mountain Running Trials for the event to be held in Turkey.

So we held them at Witton :D
8 mile 1800ft
It was a fast course, but tough.

The powers that be were so "impressed" I was asked to host the Inters a few years later in 2014.

It wasn't for the purists :D

I seem to remember Graham sat on the sun at the finish straight. Can't remember if it was the Inters or the Trials.
I'm edging towards the Inters as it was certainly hot.

Probably an indication that runners are not really "fell" runners at the Inters is that I was criticised for not having a drinks station on the course :O

The word "fell" still puts the fear of god into some very good runners though...

I'm no longer taking care of our county team... but still have contact details of some of the top runners in the county...

I asked one recently if he might want to be considered.... i won't name names, but he's recently ran on the road for England, finished (very) high up at the National XC, and ran in GB mountain trials before...

His response was "i won't be fit for the fells".....!

He would probably finish in the top 10.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Well in cycling proper riders win Grand Tours or the Classics but there is also the World Championship for those who can only sprint for a few hundred metres and bother to turn up on the day.

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Whilst it wasn't me that brought cycling into this discussion, I should point out that what you said is not correct; here are the winners for the last 11 years

2012 Philippe Gilbert - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2013 Rui Costa - Grand Tour stage winner
2014 Michal Kwiatkowski - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2015 Peter Sagan - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2016 Peter Sagan - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2017 Peter Sagan - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2018 Alejandro Valverde - Grand Tour and classics winner
2019 Mads Pederson - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2020 Julian Alaphilippe - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2021 Julian Alaphilippe - Grand Tour stage winner and classics winner
2022 Remco Evenepoel - Grand Tour and classics winner

Two of these riders have won a Grand Tour, and all of them have won at least one stage of a Grand Tour. Only one of these riders has not won a classic race. And if we went back over 50 years, we would see names like Armstrong, Bugno, Lemond, Roche, Zoetemelk, Saronni, Maertens, Hinault, Moser, Merckx and Gimondi - all Grand Tour winners and top riders.

Whilst we're talking about two very different sports, 50+ years of evidence in cycling suggests that in a one-off race the title is going to be won by a top athlete, if not the top athlete of that year.