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I love vff's but my main problem is that I get stone bruising when running on rocky stuff, which was the reason that I got them as I was getting stone bruising when barefoot running on rocky stuff! The treks look good, but I think I'll wait and see what inov 8 come out with next year. I would be happy with a shoe similar to say Rocklite but with a completely flat sole and perhaps just one level of cushioning - my feet are feeling tender from all this bruising.
I think the " ultimate fellracer" will be what your looking for.
Barefooting is great on smooth or grass but for most folks you will need some underfoot protection to go off-road and most certainly for fellrunning.
Interesting post taken from a barefoot/minimalist forum.
Running in Minimalist Footwear in Saint John, Virgin Islands
For nearly two decades my family has run (pun intended) a specialty
running store with the philosophy that less is more. We have preached
that too much support makes for weaker feet and that people should use
the least supportive footwear combination for their particular
situation and work towards strengthening their feet as much as
possible to avoid future problems. Support shoes and orthotics might
be a great short term fix, but they’re definitely not a long term
solution and only lead to weak feet and arches, dependence on them,
and future injuries. In my 18 years of working at running specialty
I’ve had a chance to see many various people and their injuries and
successes over the years. One common trend I have seen over the years
is that the runners who keep their feet strong and change things up on
a regular basis seem to be the most successful (my definition of
successful is being able to run and stay healthy in body, mind, &
spirit).
We brought in Vibram Fivefingers to our store originally after we had
a customer that could not shake his shin splints regardless of what
traditional methods we tried. He had been through every shoe,
stability device, insole, stretch, etc. you can think of. He finally
decided to give the barefoot thing a try, and next thing you know
things were starting to improve. He got a pair of Fivefingers (which
seemed like a bit of a revelation when we first saw them!) and we’ve
been selling them ever since. The concept has slowly gained traction,
selling more and more with time as people relate their success stories
to their friends (most of whom think they are crazy). We have sold
over 100 pair of VFF’s every month in 2009 since winter waned. In
three plus years of selling these things, I am yet to hear from
someone who regretted their decision to buy them. That’s pretty
impressive considering the thousands of pairs we’ve sold!
It’s always been interesting how differently people take to the idea
of barefooting to strengthen their feet. Some just don’t want to go
there. Many are just creatures of habit and have worn the same shoe
for the last ten years and don’t want to change. Some say they
*might* give it a try some time. Others ditch their shoes all
together. Some just jump right in and go do ten miles in Fivefingers
the first day they have them (these people DO get sore!) When people
get a new pair of shoes, we often joke and say “no twenty milers on
these tomorrow” but some people really need to be told that!
It’s important to note that those who run too hard barefoot or in
minimalist / zero drop (no elevated heel) footwear for the first time
don’t generally notice that much soreness on their actual run. It’s
the next day when their feet are sensitive or their Achilles & Soleus
(lower calf) muscles are so sore that people are asking them why they
are walking funny that they realize they *might* have over-done it
just a bit and that they really haven’t used those areas as much
with traditional running shoes. That said, I think it’s really
important that these people aren’t getting injured, they’re just
getting really sore! The beauty of minimalist footwear and
barefooting is the bio-feedback your body gives you. Unlike in normal
shoes, your body lets you know that it’s had enough before it breaks.
I’d rather have my body telling me I’m overdoing it by making me sore
than be injured any day!
Also of note is to keep in mind that everyone is different. I know
people that have transitioned straight to minimalist footwear running
50+ miles a week and said they didn’t even really get sore! On the
other hand, I know people that have gone five minutes who were totally
sore the next day. Most of us fall somewhere in between (imagine
that!).
Often in the past and especially since we started selling FiveFingers
to runners over three years ago, people have asked me how to phase
barefooting into their running routine. I usually ask a few questions
to assess their foot strength and then make a recommendation based on
how sensitive they are and how strong their feet are. Since we are
broadcasting to the world, my minimalist friends and I have put three
programs together: One for weaker feet, one for average feet, and one
for people who feel they have very strong feet.
check out our site at http://www.barefoot-running.com for a detailed
training regime.
Terry,
Are you posting on Ted's forum like me? http://groups.google.com/group/huaraches?hl=en
I just received my 1st pair of the new FiveFingers Trek.
http://birthdayshoes.com/index.php/kso-trek/
When I'll have been able to get rid of a cold I'll be testing them. I'll report how it went.
Do you think they're going to be available somewhere in 2010?Quote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
Yes :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bfluc
Don't know about Terry but I am! Are you Luc pied nu?Quote:
Originally Posted by bfluc
Yes, I concur :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
Yes, I am Luc aka pieds nus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister
Yep, I use the group. Some good stuff on there, apart from the fact I have an extra 100 emails in my inbox every morning :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bfluc
Terry,
You should use the digest option, it would leave you with only 2 or 3 emails per day.
Sign In, click on My Groups (upper right), click on Manage my memberships, in the Subscription type drop-list select Digest Email, and click on Save group settings.
Voilà! you're life is gonna be more minimalist! ;)
Thanks for that!
All this modern technology!
What do we barefooters say?Quote:
Less is more!!!
:p
Great little barefoot section over Erringden Moor this morning on a run up to Stoodley. Just about a half mile burst before my feet got too cold. Also had No 1 son with me who went for it as well despite being dubious. 15 secs in and he was whooping "WOW i'm running on my toes"
Done it twice now and both times I have run much faster when the shoes come off:)
Hmmm
Been taking it east this week after the relays sunday but a question on my mind is this, how easy is it to change from heel striking to forefront or mid striking?
I have realised that my knee pain seems to be related to heel striking. Both knees hurt on the inner leg side. This pain stops if I change to forefront striking or run barefoot (which amounts to the same thing). Thing is my foot hurts after a road session of forefoot running.
I guess it's a matter of time? if I keep doing the barefoot my feet will strengthen and I'll manage to run more on the forefoot.
At the moment I am running barefoot once a week usually a few laps of the park at the end of a road session. Or today I did two laps of kendal race course (lovely running btw). Doesn't feel fast though but generally no or less knee pain compared to all other running either fell or road.
So, anyone changed running style successfully? I think I've read that trying to do so usually results in injury, is that right?
cheers
I wouldnt pretend to know as I am sure there are lots of biomechanical explanations or other baffling reasons but to me it just seems to happen, when I take of my shoes I just run better on my toes and am sure its going to be just a matter of time to strengthen up to run further. I stand to be corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by cockermouth?
I agree completely.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clash City Rocker
The most important thing is to be patient and take your time!
You have to remember that most of the muscles, ligaments and tendons in your feet and lower limbs have been mostly dormant due to wearing shods.
Some people are naturally a forefoot/midfoot striker, so the transition should be easier. If like me, you are or were a heel striker (and used orthotics!), then you have to be a lot more patient. For a heel striker, you are changing completely the way you run so need to give more time for your body to adjust. Yes, you will naturally change to forefoot/midfoot when barefooting (your heel bone would shatter if you continued landing on it barefoot) but your body isn’t used to running that way. You may find that you become a bit excited and try and run a fast 10 mile on road to early, DON’T! That will lead to a stress fracture in your foot (barefoot running wasn’t the cause, it was my own fault for trying to change to quickly and not giving my body time to adjust).
Just be patient and build up the mileage SLOWLY and take more rest days between barefooting (to let your feet and legs repair). Then before you know it, something happens and it becomes “natural” to run this way and you find you can’t wear heavy trainers anymore and you think everyone else who lands of their heels is crazy!
I beat my course 10K (x-country) last week by over 1 minute, so it works for me!
Good luck and enjoy :D
So true!! Needed to dump my most recent purchase which were the most padded shoes I have owned in the belief that padding = cushioning = lack of impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry the Tortoise
Took a while in regular shoes before I felt that I should change shoes as eventually the heel starts interfering with the way you are running and you need to go to something flatter.
Now running in Inov8 220's on the road and it is just automatic to run on mid foot. Need to concentrate to actually heel strike like I used to have to concentrate on mid foot striking and it just feels wrong.
Calf muscles are still taking a bit of a battering so need to be careful not to overdo it.
Not got rid of my foot problems yet though, although hasn't made them worse.
Like Terry wrote
The most important thing is to be patient
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry the Tortoise
thanks for those replies. I get the message, it takes time, be patient!
cheers
Okay, this feels like something that someone else would write but here goes nothing. Stumbled across the forum and this thread for the first time ever on Saturday. Got weirdly excited about it and decided to whip out a pair of old runners that I had to stop running in because they were too lightweight - Brooks offroad something or others. Walked about town on Saturday in them. Legs a bit shocked. Short strol in teh country in them on Sunday and realised I landed properly on my leg foot but heel strike with my right. Sounds mental but it's true. Noticed just how much my hips had to work compared to normal.
Today I went for my first run in about 6 years in the Brooks runners with the insoles out - can't believe I'd put those Sorbathane yokes in before!!! Red, spongy devils work. Did a half hour run and finished off with 2 laps of a muddy footbal pitch in my bare feet. Fan-bleedin-tastic :)
My right hip feels used but not sore. I hardly feel the need to stretch. My calves, ankles, achilles, knees, hips and back aren't aching!!! It's mental. I've been to physios on and off for 10 years. Gave up running for a couple of years. Got back to it in recent years when a good physio set me right about weak glutes and hips. But oddly until now, no matter how much I ran, the glutes and hips would ony strengthen with specific exercises rather than through running.
Changed to Inov8's a few months back and kept up my heel striking technique. Got a massive cramp in my calf and back to the physio. Turns out my calves were weak as water. Did loads of exercises on them and felt good. Did bit of running and felt good. Stopped doing physios exercises but kept running but when I went back to do a few exercises the calves felt like they'd as good lost all the strength again.
So, after reading this thread it all sort of fell in to place!!! My calves weren't doing much and neither were my ankles and hips. Probaby also explains all my knee, hamstring, ITB hassles too.
Obviously it's early days and the arch of my right foot feels a tiny bit used but I'm hooked :)
Now, to get a lighter pair of runners and maybe even attempt to run on the roads for the first time in about a decade :)
Happy days :)
P
Nice :D
I've managed to get hold of the new FiveFinger TREKS from the US for under £100. The Treks won't be available in UK until next year and they will be priced at around £160-£200, so it will still be cheaper to buy this way.
First thing you need to do is register with shopUSA. How this works, is that they provide you with a delivery address in the US. You order something and have it dispatched to this address. They will then forward it on to you for a fee (which they don't take until they dispatch). The best bit is, that although you pay a fee, its far far less then paying all the duty etc you normally would have to.
Then email Anne Fekete ([email protected]) at GSS Gear. They provide gear for military and government agencies, but you won't find the Treks on their website. All you need to do is email Anne and she will help you with the order from there. She's very helpful and provides great customer service. If you mention my name (Terry Conway), it should help with the process.
You should receive your new TREKS around 10 days after payment :D
I paid $145 in TOTAL, which works out at around £90! I can't promise you it will be that cheap for everyone, GSS Gear gave me an amazing discount due to who I work for. Any questions, PM me. :D
Could all the trek owners give a bit of feed back over the next months. If I wasn't poor I'd buy some myself! I think I'm going to wait until next year and see what inov 8 come up with, until then I've got the KSO's to keep me going.
A couple of us have posted our impressions in the FiveFingers thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister
I also posted a cheap alternate (US-based) supplier in this message.
I'll be wearing my Treks for the Wrekin Wrecker later this month, though, like you, I'm excited to see what Inov-8 is working on.
Hi all
Thanks for all the posts on here on this topic - really useful stuff. I thought I'd add my tuppence worth in case its useful. I changed my running style about 5 weeks ago from heel striking to forefoot, although Ive not invested in any different footware yet. Ive since read 'born to run' and am hooked on this way of doing it.
What I found is, apart from stuff like it taking my calves a while to get used to it, that I am WAY quicker downhill, am much more footsure on rough terrain and havent yet turned an ankle. This is I think partly down to increased control of the foot but also if you heel strike you cant really see what is under your forefoot when it comes down.
Also, because Im not so reliant on the studs on my heels being in good nick Ive been able to ressurect a couple of old pairs of shoes and they're working great.
Legs also feel much fresher after runs and way fewer niggles and aches. I just ran back from Tameside to Glossop this evening over the moors in the dark and feel like I dont even need to stretch. Most odd.
I do however suspect that I mince quite badly with this style. There's always a downside.
Cheers
Gone a bit quiet on the barefoot front! Everyone back in their Inov-8s and Walshes now? :cool:
Nope. That silence is the sound of 2 bare feet running. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Still barefooting a couple of times a week, this is more of a foot strengthening exercise rather than "normal" training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
When I want to run the fells or off-road out comes the X-Talons or Roclite 285's minus the footbeds.
The new X-Talon 190 will be an even lower 1 arrow shoe with no differential but still with the exceptional grip.
Then there will be "The Ultimate Fellshoe" for those who are looking for that barefoot experience but with grip.
Most folk will need some "underfoot protection" what we want to do is offer varying degrees from next to none upto our 4 arrow.
Good to hear the pitter patter of naked feet is still audible :cool:
I'm going to have to have a go at some point :)
Inov-8 insider, i see that newer models are mostly for fell running. Any news for a lightwight trail shoe, lighter than the 285?
There will be a F-Lite 195- its a 1 arrow, no differential.
Its a good shoe for mixing it- road and dry rocky tracks.
Expected mid 2010
I really can't wait for the new shoes!
I'm doing the same as II at the moment running a little barefoot here and there but mainly training in the 285's I find these really good but others have had differing experiences. I have always felt that the inov-8 last matches my feet pretty well :D
I'll do more barefoot when it gets warmer again, I'm not too sure about VFF's for the moment though...
I did 12 miles in the Treks on sat and 18 miles in the F-lites on sun.
Really do like the Treks and dont seem to have any issues with them.
I have tried making my own sandles but cant get anything decent to make the sole from, Folks in the states use 4 mm Vibram cherry sole material, anyone know where I can get my hands on this material in this country.
That'll be nice. September and October were ok, but November has brough a thin film of mud slime to the paths that form some of my routes - bare soles can be an exciting experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
That too will be nice. I've found you can run up barefoot ok - Arthurs Seat in Edinburgh for example - right to the rocky summit, but down on rock - I didn't even try - too high impact on hard and pointy bits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider
I'll be interested to see if wearing a shoe - even a zero differential shoe affects running style.
Barefoot forces you absolutely into a forefoot strike in order to utilise flex and shock absorbtion of the foot. I've a suspicion that with cushioning you could drop back to more mid / rearfoot strike.
So interms of re-developing a natural running style the "Ultimate" may well be the most beneficial.
So do crazy canucks in Canada as well. Let me know if you can find it. I am going to see if I can get some here locally. I had not the time yet to visit a couple of places where I think I might be able to get some. If I can't find it in my city maybe I could order some for you the next time I am ordering something from Barefoot Ted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loon Dod
Barefoot Ted's Shop
If I am shipping you cherry you'll owe me a pint of good beer after a fellrun when I'll go to UK. :D
Cheers
Have you seen this site
http://www.invisibleshoe.com/#ecwid:...=0&sort=normal
Nope.
Thanks! :)
All the research seems to indicate that running barefoot is better for you than running with clunky trainers on but i wouldn't want to run barefoot on the roads near me. I'd end up standing in dog shit, human piss and glass. :eek: