I think it's changed again, but I can't confirm it Tim. IDP will know.
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I think it's changed again, but I can't confirm it Tim. IDP will know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimW
ahh yes ask Ian... I don't know every thing:)Quote:
Originally Posted by MickTor
but....as far as I know the old original route is probably out as the descent to twitchill Farm through the last field is heavily eroded and is getting dangerous. the plan was to move it to a new grassy line but I can't confirm it just yet will check and get back to you. The rough track was suppose to be temporary last year at the request of the landlord for the above reasons
The descent line taken by the Hope Wakes race last year seemed like a good alternative?
I don't know if this is a possibility though?
I'm not sure where that went Ian, If it's the same from previous years then yes I think it joins that route. but don't take it as gospel. I'll try and find out for definite.Quote:
Originally Posted by fellgazelle
I'm in also, can't wait, one of my favourite races!. Had a run around the route yesterday (from Mam Tor and minus Win Hill, so quite a bit easier!).
A lot of unattached runners on the entry list (more so than usual?) - wonder how many entered after the profile in Trail Running Magazine?
There are a lot of U/A runners on the 3P entry list as well, but that's not completely unusual.
Just if you compare to Kentmere, which has just the one U/A runner entered.
Got nothing against U/A runners, but in some circumstances, this will mean that they're not quite prepared for the race. Although I know IanFitz does vet all the entries for experience, so the ones who've entered with no idea (and therefore could be a problem) will hopefully be weeded out.
Just wonder how many completely ignored the qualifying criteria when entering (both U/A and club runners for that matter)
70/400 Unattached in entry list
50/300 Unattached in 2012 results
not a big discrepancy considering u/a are probably slightly more likely to DNS/DNF
I'm unattached.... and proud of it :). I've done shed loads of events too, many of which eat the Edale Skyline and 3 Peaks for breakfast. Are you being non-running clubist? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by fozzy
No, not at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
It just seemed strange that there was such a high proportion of UA runners on the entry list, compared to, for example Kentmere.
It's more the proportion you might expect from a road race, which is what got me thinking, that's all.
My worry, as always with the longer, more tricky fell races is that some enter them thinking, well I can run 20miles on the road, this can't be any harder. Well, yes, it can and is.
I am perfectly aware that there are runners who are unattached and more than capable of running Edale and other races which are too hard for me (Wasdale and Ennerdale for example), such as yourself Stolly.
Sometimes a club can be a bit of a safety net for some of these races, where the more experienced runners can point out how hard a particular race is and what they should do to prepare. UA runners don't always have this. On the other hand, I know that there are some club runners on the 3P entry list that have never run a fell race (not from my club btw), and will have been persuaded by their clubmates to do it I am sure.
Fundamentally I don't believe fell races (or trail races or road races) are particularly for any type of runner, club runner, non-club runner, fast runner or slow. Edale and the 3P both ask those applying to list their previous AL category race experience and, with Edale, I think they might even do spot checks on that. Equally both apply cut offs too, Edale at Mam Nick and 3P at Ribblehead and Chapel le Dale - those cutoffs really put pressure on runners thinking of biting off more than they can chew.
Either way the only way to get experience in these sort of races is to actually give them a bash
Edit: And another thing, if you then jump from AL fell races to ultra distance stuff, very few runners relatively speaking run as, or at least announce themselves as, club runners - have a look at the Lakeland 100 entry list for example. For sure you don't see that many club vests at ultra races
There's a few questions above that are directed to me. At the risk of stirring up gossip and controversy I want to make it clear that I am no longer the RO for the race.
I've made my reasons for this known to the committees of DPFR and the FRA and won't be going over these in public.
The skyline will continue as normal and I am supporting my club-mates by passing on the knowledge I've gained over the last three races.
Sorry to hear this. From my experience of the race last Sept, you've done an excellent job. I am sure that whoever takes it on will benefit greatly from your advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanFitz
The Skyline is FULL
any body entering will be put on the waiting list. If you can't make it PLEASE let some one know so others can take part.
Quite agree and I am also proudly unattached. This has been said before on another thread, there is a difference between being fit enough to make the cut-off(s) and being experienced enough to get yourself out of trouble if the conditions deteriorate as can happen in a race as superficially benign as Edale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Well, I'm in.
Recce'd he first half today, in weather you can only hope will be something like race day - glorious day out with the dog. Gentle pace, enjoying the views.
Bumped into, and ran along with DPFR member Simon Bourne for the section from the plateau to Win Hill - thanks for the chat and the tips, good to meet you.
Ran out of steam on ascent of Lose Hill(note to self; next time have a quiet day the day before and no G&T/ wine with dinner!), made it to the Nick in just over 3 hrs at a gentle recce pace, incuding all the stops to double check bearings, paths, junctions and call back the dog, whose map reading needs some work.
Managed a cheeky refill of water from hosepipe at the farm/ B&B below Win Hill
Feeling good for the day.
Recce second part in a couple of weeks, before of after the Cloud9
Lovely stop at the trig on Win Hill - great day to be out
Well, I'm in.
Recce'd he first half today, in weather you can only hope will be something like race day - glorious day out with the dog. Gentle pace, enjoying the views.
Bumped into, and ran along with DPFR member Simon Bourne for the section from the plateau to Win Hill - thanks for the chat and the tips, good to meet you.
Ran out of steam on ascent of Lose Hill(note to self; next time have a quiet day the day before and no G&T/ wine with dinner!), made it to the Nick in just over 3 hrs at a gentle recce pace, incuding all the stops to double check bearings, paths, junctions and call back the dog, whose map reading needs some work.
Managed a cheeky refill of water from hosepipe at the farm/ B&B below Win Hill
Feeling good for the day.
Recce second part in a couple of weeks, before of after the Cloud9
Lovely stop at the trig on Win Hill - great day to be out
Sounds great, fingers crossed for similar weather on race day. Gonna have to really try to get myself over there for a recce before race day, this been my first Skyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by drmorris
yesterday took day off work and went round whole route
bit "mizzly" early on but turned out a lovely day
very boggy on way over to Brown Knoll, and very muddy on the lower stretches of the way up Lose Hill
got round in 5:07 (but stopped watch a few times while catching a sneaky rest "admiring the view" ;) )
start/finished from Rushup Edge, so split times bit skewed cos fresh/tired on different bits from race
will have to shift a bit on the flatter sections in the first half to make the cut-off, but confident of doing so, and threatening sub-5
looking forward to it :D
re: the new route off Win Hill.
I get that the steep descent off Win Hill via Twitchill Farm/B&B was a problem. Fair play.
I see the new CP 3a and 3b on and below Hope Brink, and the move of CP4(details on the DP site) from the 'bottom' of Hope to the 'top' near Townhead, at the fork.
Q: Is it a straight run back re-tracing the route from Win Hill along Hope Brink to CP3a, then direct descend to 3b across field(no path marked on my maps), and down track to Fulwood Stile Farm and then Townhead CP4?
Or a minor diversion off Win Hill onto the lower field path onto Hope Brink CP3a so as to avoid crossing the runners still climbing?(and then direct to 3b,and track to CP4)
Either way, it looks like the same distance(2.5K from the stile off Win Hill) as the old route.
Or, will we have to follow the path off Hope Brink all the way back to the path crossing west of Wooler Knoll, and take the path down to Fulwood Stile? if so seems to add another 1.8K?(or more importantly, potentially another 10-12mins before the cut-off)
Appreciate some clarification whenever anyone with inside knowledge has the time, appreciate must be busy
Most runners take the race line round to the north of 3a to CP3 then back down the ridge to 3a. there is a a trod I'm told to 3b which I'm sure will be marked. (don't think I've run it before)I'll suggest to Tom we send every one on the fast line rather than the track if you think it may cause problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by drmorris
Then down the track. I believe some of it is on private land and only open on race day. I'll check with RO Tom who I think will be out running with me tonight on Kinder.
OK thanks. I think I have it in my head; it's just that I won't get a chance for a recce of the first half again before the day. It sounds eminently navigable(famous last words) it's just not what I recce'd.(I was working off the map I bought from pete Bland Sports with a 2013 date on it) Makes sense if most people take that 'racing line'
I'll either be over this weekend or next for the Mam Nick-Brown Knoll- Ringing Roger section.
As a first timer I will almost certainly be sticking to the 'Skyline' all the way round, i.e.:
- the southern path around the skyline from RR to Jaggers Clough(rather than heading somewhere towards MWstones and missing)
- I will decide on the day whether or not to go for the 'race line' onto Win Hill, or use the nice wide, flat track
- I think I will play it very safe, and 'skyline' it all the way round from Jacobs Ladder, commit the turn to G.Knoll to memory, and then NOT do the down+up!
What does anyone think of these splits, based on my recce:
Ringing Roger 20mins
Hope Cross 45mins
Win Hill 1:15
Lose Hill 1:50
Mam Nick 2:20
(I'm fine on the flat; but climb slowly)
I'd say 35mins for WinHill-LoseHill is a tad optimisticQuote:
Originally Posted by drmorris
I'd allow slightly longer for that section and a bit less for HC-WH and LH-MN
you won't need to reccie first half, very obvious and lots of runners.
I know, it doesn't look right.Quote:
Originally Posted by DazTheSlug
Good point; steep ascents are my weaker spot, I can run the gradient up Win Hill, and Crookstone to Hope Cross should be quicker.
Down into Hope should be fine; it's Lose Hill which will slow me down again
Breaking it down like this(when I can't just run it 3x a week) helps me to be confident I should make the cutoff with a little to spare. <touches wood>
Aiming to be on top of Lose Hill by 1:50 - 2:00
Not long now till the race!
I've seen quite a few folk out on recces when I've been up that way.
I wonder if it's going to snow before it!
AFAIK there's no racing line that cuts the corner to MW stones - there may be a trod but I doubt it gains anything significant as it doesn't cut a very big corner and is likely to be quite heathery and tussocky.Quote:
Originally Posted by drmorris
The 'race line' on Win Hill is nicer IMO as its not as undulating. Its fairly easy to pick up, there's a little trod on the LHS just after a little knoll as you begin climbing the whale back of Win Hill.
The main shortcut that is worth seeking out is the one that runs from near Pym Chair to the top of Crowden Brook avoiding the woolpacks.
What about from Jacob's Ladder path crossing to Noe Stool ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_B
There is that as well, takes a little more finding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie
Is the line taking you over Thornhill Brink all that much better? I did it last Sept in the race, having used the path along Hope Brink on reccies and really wasn't convinced it was (a) any easier or (b) quicker. The main path is much better running underfoot from memory as well (I remember the trod being quite narrow and difficult to pass and also quite muddy in places and given all the rain, I'm expecting it to be worse in a few weeks time...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_B
Was going to post this as a Q for IDP anyway.
I must remember the one round the back of Woolpacks though - reccied it a few years back and it's relatively straightforward I thought, but chickened out on the race last year and stuck to the main path - I'd forgotten how awful it is through the Woolpacks though. Won't be doing that this year.
Richard I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's a nicer trod and is probably quicker if no one is in front but it's narrow and you can't pass. I've timed both ways and it's quicker for me on the race line but last year a runner went up the main track I'd been running with since the coffin Stone on the end of Kinder and he came out about 50m a head of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by fozzy
well, looks like I've a pass out for a recce of the 2nd half tomorrow
say hello if you pass a man with a map and a confused expression, and a daft collie.
Starting from Edale car park after 10am, up to Mam Nick, then round to RR. On on!
I'm hoping to be out at 8.30 for a full trip tomorrow. aiming to get round in 4.30ish
Wouldn't mind tagging along if I can get there Ian?Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
I might be lucky if I get round on the day in 4.30 given how sporadic my training is at the moment!Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Think I'll stick to orienteering on Stoodley Pike tomorrow. At least my navigation should be sharp on the day!
can pick you up at ladybower at 8.10 or meet you at station?Quote:
Originally Posted by MickTor
Never mind Ian, just looked at transport. Earliest train gets to Edale at 09:52! Think it might be a local one for me.
Great day to be out today. 2:45 including stops round the 2nd half, with lots of map checks. An I right in thinking cp 1/12 is on the 'summit' of ringing roger on the western side, near the new, yellow brown steps?
Got a good idea of the route to Pym chair; think I found a good route north of the wool packs, survived brown knoll despite getting thigh deep in the black stuff. Hit everything i aimed at but missed out on the bonus points for finding the boundary stone. The route off brown knoll looks OK, there were 2 new styles but the northern one looks more obvious.
Worst but was coming back down the zig zags, having to watch every foot placement.
The turn to gk has a couple of Salvador dali rabbits, and the line off has a couple of Easter island penguins to aim at. Or is that just how my mind works?
Glorious day today, ran round the whole of the skyline in 3.58 which I'm very pleased with. only a few runners out but bumped in to Dantoman? on Grindslow(first time) didn't see a soul to Win Hill then I hit lose hill and the hordes...just a couple of lady dpers who slowed me down with there charm..;)
I saw no one else recceing Brown knoll was damp:)By RR the hordes were back which slowed me down having to dodge picnickers on the path. very hot out there, could have done with more to drink. even caught the sun....
If the weathers like this 2 weeks today I'll be well pleased. I know it maybe a tad warm but I'd rather be like this than some of the horrendous conditions in the past. Looking forward to it.
I cannot run due to injury. How do I cancel my entry on the Sportident website? It doesn't seem obvious at first glance.