Coronavirus

I'm with Travs on this one. With my expertise, I could have gone into the oil industry, civil engineering, etc and earned a lot more, but would have had less security in case of a downturn in such a sector than I do in academia (although my security in academia has gone out the window, but that's another story).

I remember a professor of Maths at Sheffield University (who worked in areas of maths with industrial applications; and note: "professor" is top grade within a department) telling me that his 31-year-old daughter was earning more than he did, and his younger daughter soon would be. I think they worked in finance or insurance or something similar.

I was recently contacted by one of my former students, now working as an actuary; a 2015 graduate, but I suspect he may already be earning more than I am. I'm not complaining: I have had a satisfying career, I have certainly earned enough to live on and, just to upset Oracle, I will have a Defined Benefit pension.

At the lower end of the pay range, I'm sure WP's observations are true; I think the difference between the top and the bottom is much greater in the private than the public sector. How much more would the £100k public sector manager be earning in the private sector?

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Originally Posted by Travs

You would appear to be far more knowledgeable than me on this subject... but i see it like this... you have a choice... private or public sector... public sector generally brings a lower salary, but benefits in the way of great pensions, and as we are seeing now, a degree of protection provided by the government/state/unions.

"We" choose to work in the private sector, and have the opportunity to be rewarded well based on merit with generally better salary prospects, but (much like the self-employed and business owners), we are liable to fall on our sword if the economy struggles.

I interviewed (and subsequently turned down a job offer) from one of the huge water providers in this company... was basically told that if i was in any way competent it was a job for life, fairly stress-free, and great pension. But i chose a similar role within a private sector company as the salary was almost 50% higher.

I'm not saying it's right that the teachers appear to have such a degree of protection, but that's the plus side of being in the public sector...

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Er, no. Having been made redundant 3 times before I was 30 (all private sector jobs) I had to take whatever job I could to pay my mortgage, so was forced to take a private sector one I didn't want.

When the 2008 banking crisis hit it was the private sector that got slaughtered. We made 25 percent of staff compulsory redundant. My department lost 75 percent of its staff, but only 25 percent of its work. We also had our pay cut by a third, 'There's the door if you don't like it...' that was never returned. We also worked 3 days a week, for 3 months a year, for 7 consecutive years.

For those of you who know your NHS pay bands I went from the middle of band 7 to band 3, (that's the band below a newly qualified nurse). Whilst there was a time when private sector pay was higher (and the risks were higher) that disappeared a long time ago.

Public sector pay is higher than that of the private sector, although it has narrowed in recent years - look at figure 4.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...n/february2020

Public sector pensions are also generally vastly superior to those of the private sector.

Every job has its own positives and negatives.

And most of the time we have a choice.

Time, experience and knowledge are sold to an employer.

Statistics are wonderful to create a smoke and mirrors effect.

Every area of employment is different there is very little of continuity between private and public sectors.

Similar to your house. It's there so live in it, make the best of it or move.

It is a convenient myth public sector salaries are lower.
Many Universities have at least 50 earning over 100K!
Even small councils like ours have a dozen.

Recently advertised non jobs in the nhs are 65k for a diversity officer, or if you prefer a performing arts manager, It riles me how much public sector wastes.

Add in the pensions at market cost, retiring early as most if them do, and the returns are outrageous.
The cost of pensions outweighs any tax that many of them will ever pay, particularly mps.

Which is another issue: Hmrc are obliged to treat benefits at market cost.
Why then are public sector pensions massively undervalued for taxation? They use an assumed cost for multiplier, not the market rate. I am not allowed to put money in my pension scheme to return at the rate public sector get.

I do think government should treat all equally.
If furlough is 80 percent in private sector and self employed, it MUST be the same in public.
Otherwise the moral hazard and union troublemaking inevitably leads to all of them staying home.
And if the retirement age is 67 that is when public sector schemes should kick in unless a massive reduction is made for early.

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Originally Posted by Travs

You would appear to be far more knowledgeable than me on this subject... but i see it like this... you have a choice... private or public sector... public sector generally brings a lower salary, but benefits in the way of great pensions, and as we are seeing now, a degree of protection provided by the government/state/unions.

"We" choose to work in the private sector, and have the opportunity to be rewarded well based on merit with generally better salary prospects, but (much like the self-employed and business owners), we are liable to fall on our sword if the economy struggles.

I interviewed (and subsequently turned down a job offer) from one of the huge water providers in this company... was basically told that if i was in any way competent it was a job for life, fairly stress-free, and great pension. But i chose a similar role within a private sector company as the salary was almost 50% higher.

I'm not saying it's right that the teachers appear to have such a degree of protection, but that's the plus side of being in the public sector...

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PS
I would say that there are more folks hiding in the public sector.

Oracle has a point that if people who are on full pay were dropped to 80% they would be knocking the doors down to get back to work.

We can all pick out specific examples. Perhaps i shouldn't have generalised with my specific example.

However the two roles i interviewed for, the Private Sector company were paying almost exactly 50% higher salary (not to mention i believe in private companies there is also far more scope to negotiate your own terms). Whilst the roles were not identical, they were very similar and in fact had the same job title.

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

At the lower end of the pay range, I'm sure WP's observations are true; I think the difference between the top and the bottom is much greater in the private than the public sector. How much more would the £100k public sector manager be earning in the private sector?

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Certainly the private sector can get very high at the top end, where some CEOs are paid in the millions.

But what I noticed in my industry, where I was selling in to big retailers like Clarks, Tesco, Next..... is that the wages growth through the 90s and in to the 00's was excellent.

But as a result of the downturn in late 00's many well paid jobs were trimmed back. One example was a senior buyer at Littlewoods on £80k pa and decent package of benefits. Experienced buyers could move jobs annually and add 20% to their salary. But all that ended. Redundancies were made. Juniors promoted, vastly reduced the wage bill and the typical salary dropped 30-40% within 12 months.

I remember hiring a painter and decorator in the 80s and the going rate was £10 an hour. That was about 4 times the typical show factory workers rate in Rossendale.

The going rate is still around £10 an hour.

Lots of reasons, and it probably has a lot to do with supply and demand, as my son-in-law in the private sector has seen excellent wage growth as a (now) Senior Developer at 25 years old in an IT company.

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Originally Posted by Travs

We can all pick out specific examples.

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Indeed.

In a previous existence I managed Salary Administration, Recruitment, Management Development et al for a 5000 staff employee company.

Everybody on the planet can make a special case for themselves.

My Director once told me it was easy to give money away and he wasn't going to pay me to do it.

If salary comparison was easy then consultancy companies like Hay would not earn £millions advising companies on what they should do.

(And FWIIW throughout my career I was always paid well - or I might mean "fairly" - but most importantly, I recognised it).

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Originally Posted by Oracle

More evidence , not that any is needed, that teachers are playing hookey and actively damaging child education by keeping schools closed when the case was only borderline in the first place: meanwhile the economic damage are doing is massive by forcing parents to look after kids , so stopping others going to work. Selfish is the only description.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...w-study-finds/


The teachers unions were given a false choice. Stay at home on full pay, or work on full pay. No surprises which they pick.

The choice should have been be furloughed on 80 percent pay up to 30000( like everyone else in private sector), or go back to work. Take your pick. Payment is supposed to be for work. Too much of the public sector is at home on full pay.

Can anybody see an identifiable penny paid by public sector for the cost of corona?

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What you fail to mention, and is conveniently hidden behind the telegraph's paywall, is that the study was carried out in Australia.

The researcher who conducted the study said it could not be used to make any recommendations on uk policy decisions, as the rates of infection between the two nations are not comparable.

As for the rest of your rant, I refer you to my previous reply to you.