dibber or die !!

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Originally Posted by IainR

The SIS system would have shown I hadn't started.

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Not quite true, because all the dibber actually does is record the time at which it is placed into the SI box, so for example, you start at 10am, you dib at CP1 at 10.13, which is recorded, CP 2 at 10.45, which is recorded, finish at 11am, which is again recorded. You then go to download and the software works out that it took you 13mins to 1, 32 mins to 2 and 15mins to finish, and 1hr overall.

Now, at most O events, you "punch" at the start Kite - i.e. dib the box at the start and head off. For races it's slightly different as you don't have a punching start and instead, I believe a common start time is input into the software and the race time calculated from that (this is also done at large O events like the british champs, where everyone has their own specific start time, but the point is it that doesn't have to be encoded on the dibber).

So, you could have collected your SI card from registration, but you the system would have shown you as having started. To avoid this, you would have had to report to download, so they could put you down as a DNF, but you could have done this within seconds of the racing having started if you wished, and you'd have then be counted in.

But your original point is still valid, because provided you downloaded, you'd have been counted out and then counted back in.

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Originally Posted by IainR

yeah of course.. but if a marshall is at a CP.. 1. they'll be too busy counting people through, I always am, they'll be struggling writing in the rain, 2. runners will also pass that CP so they could see this runner..

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Both are true but with no marshall (with possible radio contact to Finish field?) there and just a dibber point I'd imagine it would take longer to call for assistance if required (my personal view).

Anyway I agree with the 'use it but don't enforce it' view on dibber systems, and indeed any technological advances which may aid overall safety.

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Originally Posted by IainR

yeah of course.. but if a marshall is at a CP.. 1. they'll be too busy counting people through, I always am, they'll be struggling writing in the rain, 2. runners will also pass that CP so they could see this runner..

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Whilst I think the SI system would help simply some things, I still think some (but not as many) marshals would be needed out on the course to look out for potential problems, but as you say, they can be alert for runners drifting off course, rather than having feverishly count runners and scribble illegible numbers down.

Can't remember who raised the issue about the box just being the box until plugged into a PC, but yes this is true. However, I am sure that in this day of smartphones etc, an app could be developed that allowed the box to bluetooth to a marshal's phone and he could then immediately see how many runners had passed through. I suspect that on most races though, where there is EOD, that a lot of marshals at CPs don't know how many started the race anyway?

I think sportident can be real time.. the 3 peaks race progress can be viewed real time..

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Originally Posted by IainR

I think sportident can be real time.. the 3 peaks race progress can be viewed real time..

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Yeah, I think they used radio controls for it, which I think must be more expensive. They had radio controls at the British Sprint and Middle O champs, but it's not normal at even fairly big regional O events as far as I am aware.

Ok.. I was getting confused then, I know some of the ultra's do too so I was sure it was possible..

Three peaks cyclocross has 'live' recording of where competitors are on the course through SI... I did my bit last year and 'played' MR, then went and found MR so the lady in question could be helicoptered out. After alerting MR and knowing help was at hand, I left and alerted the nearest CP of that persons incident. They recorded it there and then... but I seem to remember a laptop being used. They also definitely have a radio point on top of Whernside, but not sure if that was for SI or MR...

FYI, My husband was on PyG at this year's Three Peaks, and his job was to operate the laptop linked to the dibber box, to make sure the real-time feed of results back the event field was ok. He and the techie guys spent about half an hour trying to get a signal and couldn't, partly because the wind kept blowing the aerial over, so that box wasn't part of the real-time feed. The information was only useful once the box was carried back to the event field and downloaded into the system.

I help organise the Wharfedale TTT in Kettlewell, and for the long Saturday race we use the old-style tags on a plastic ring (one for each checkpoint), backed up by marshals noting numbers. We also have walkie talkie radios, but the landscape means there are always blackspots, and as for mobile phone reception.....! Runners have to come and sign in for each race and collect their number, that way we know how many runners are on the course, and we also have at least one sweeper out on the course to keep an eye on what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Britta

What you want doesn't matter here - it is entirely the race organiser's call how to track runners - if he/she want additional safety measures they can impose them!
If you are worried about race organisers being forced to use dibbers when they don't think they need them, then there'd be a debate

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OK, once again for the hard of understanding. Nobody is arguing against the use of dibbers, I actually like the bloody things! and it's obviously a ROs pergoragative to do as they wish and I'll happily comply with that, but the debate started around IainR's comments around safety and LFFs and I's concern around the possibility of them becoming compulsory. .. but hey let's not let the facts get in the way of a good punch up! :D

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Originally Posted by Fishy

FYI, My husband was on PyG at this year's Three Peaks, and his job was to operate the laptop linked to the dibber box, to make sure the real-time feed of results back the event field was ok.

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So we lose marshalls, which is safer for them as they don't have to stay on top of hills for hours. But we gain tech support guys, who sit with a dibber station to ensure that the dibber box is talking to the field. That's progress :)