he did 5:08 last year.
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he did 5:08 last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudgy
:confused: we talking about the same race? Wasdale 21 miles 9000ft? Goes up seatallan?
in his defence he is one of the best climbers ive ran against. Not always in speed but in steadiness
I did run up the Pike (very slowly, but no change there!)
And Tom on Peris, you're going up Snowdon and Cyngorian by the steep sides. Others may be able to run Cyngorian, but I recall burying my nose in the turf and crawling up
Anyway back on topic, well done all who did Wasdale. A tough outing and that heat can't have been pleasant
He was 10 minutes behind me last year at top of Gable and beat me by 8 minutes so maybe he did?Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
Grief, opened up a can of worms there. I walked the steepest parts of Pillar, but not much of it. Ran all of Seatallan, and most of the remainder of the race, as did most of the runners around me. That said my fastest pace is indistinguishable from a crawl anyway.
Best to just say you suffered like a dog and was glad to finish, mention running and enjoying yourself and people get quite irate mate...........oooh that rhymes:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Pudgy
But I did enjoy it! Possibly the most enjoyable race I've ever done! Not in a hurry to do it again though :rolleyes:
Wasdale probably is more runnable, that's why I find it harder. On the Peris it's a walk/run up to the top of the quarries, walk up to Elidir, Walk Garn, Walk Glyder Fawr, Walk lliwedd, walk/crawl snowdon, walk/crawl Cynghorion where as a good few of the wasdale climbs were runnable. I saw quite a few run well up the later climbs when I was walking. There were only a few very steep walking climbs, the main one being Gable. I suppose it's personal which parts we prefer/find easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudgy
Really great course though with good beer to finish. That final descent looks a lovely piece of running if it was part of a shorter race, now tempted by Scafell or Lingmell just to run them when fresh.
Went out for a road ride this morning and cycled up Hard Knott Pass just to finish the old quads off..
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylegs
Anyone can have an opinion but in the face of facts, like those I have quoted, I think it worthwhile testing the experience of those that posit those opinions.
For what it is worth, and call me elitist if you wish, if Rob Jebb or Pete Vale or Simon Booth said Peris was tougher than Wasdale-and I mean the whole race, not selected bits of it- I would value that opinion slightly higher than that of someone who came 43rd in 2008 in 5.08 in contrast with Pete Vale who won in 3.51.
But, as I say, anyone can have an opinion. And I finished Wasdale (again) yesterday.
Good effort Sir, don't be drawn. You are a credit to fellrunning and fellrunners.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
Thanks;)
Of course Graham. And you could also have your own opinion, as opposed to Pete Vales or Rob Jebb's. Or are your finishing times too poor for you to be worthy of an opinion?
And facts can be chosen very selectively. Which particular facts are you alluding to?
I value anyone's opinion, well done Graham;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
And good grief, we're actually agreeing with each other, even if it is becoming a condescend fest!
Sorry - to the rest of us it's starting to sound a bit like "my fell race is tougher than your fell race....!" :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudgy
Ian,
Since you are 26 years younger than me I wouldn't harp too much on finishing times if I were you.
Best Wishes & Good Night.
Graham
Really? If I race against YDT I'll come out on top but I know whose opinion I'd rate higher...Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
Figures aren't everything, concentrate of the figures and you won't see the wood for the trees..
Record time isn't a great indicator of difficulty - to put it pollitely. I know one doesn't like rude words but I think you are talking bollox..
I do faster times than Merry sometimes but our posts are equal in bullshit
Wow, I just said Wasdale was a tough sod, for me harder than Peris. Most people refer to Wasdale, Peris and Jura as 3 of the hardest races in the country, having done them all, the other two a few times, I just found Wasdale significantly harder. That was all...Quote:
Originally Posted by jodg
Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Well you would wouldn't you...
My thoughts as well Jan........all my fell races are tough, but that's just my opinion:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jodg
Respect to GrahamB though and all other 60+ runners, hope i'm still running at that age:cool:
Yep, it's all getting far too anal. Well done to all who did Wasdale (or plan to do Peris :D)Quote:
Originally Posted by jodg
Sometimes:confused::DQuote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
It appears to me that neither of you are going to agree and this will njust become like this UKA trial race thread. But for me personally i find 1500m the hardest race ever. No rests up hill and no easy running down. Hard work all the way for 4 and a half minutes. Much harder than Wasdale or peris in its own right.
Only Lantern Pike and Auld Lang Syne. But you probably wont beat me that much anymore until the ultra stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by merrylegs
Only winding you up young man;) Don't care who beats me, just like to get round, and let them who beat me get the first round, its a Yorkshire trick;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
Sort of agree Tom, I just have a dislike of elitist people who are disrespectful to people.
I'm comparing like with like though, any race is difficult, be it 5 k, marathon or fell. But like for like, tough hard rough fell races compared, I just found Wasdale tougher. As I say though really (now in hindsight) enjoyable. Almost ultra like in the experience. I ended up in that 'just finish' mind set, normally I'm competitive but yesterday it was just that 'just finish, make the pain end' feeling that I normally only get in ultras.
I think maybe I underestimated, I got to Gable thinking I'd broken the back of it and then realised there was a long way to go. I suppose with time it'll get easier like the Peris has but I just found it a step up from the other two.
Cracking race though.
im sorry iain but its just hit me. Who is anyone over 60, british champion or whoever even welsh wizard :p. To tell someone that they shouldnt find a certain race harder. In all honesty i think its a bit sad and doesnt come across aas an intelligent or logical way of thinking
'Long' can be an objective measure, 'tough' can't. As 'tough' is subjective, the opinion of a 5-hour finisher is as valid as that of a faster runner.
(Perhaps more so, because the slower runner had longer to think about it...).
The opinions of Rob Jebb and Pete Vale and Simon Booth are surely to be respected not because they're fast, but rather because they're experienced?
And ultimately, neither speed nor experience necessarily equates to wisdom in these matters. It is possible for a runner to be fast and stupid, or to have been around the block and missed all the sights.
Agree Tom, finding races hard or easy is a personal thing, no one can tell you that, you just know;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
By the way Tom, you should try and get to Siabod Race on Saturday if you like racing this side, lovely little up and downer, classic race, clashes with Snowdon so may suffer numbers wise this year which is a pity as it deserves to be a popular race. Great atmosphere with a great river crossing to finish.
It' doesn't really matter to me which is the hardest race, but they certainly don't get much better than Wasdale, and a big thanks to the organizers and marshals and helpers. But a more serious point to me was the litter louts were back on the fells, I picked 3 gel packs up on my way round one on the traverse below Scout Fell and two on the descent from Pillar all freshly dropped and all off the main tracks and on trods only runners would take, I was in about 80th place at the Pillar CP which narrows the perpetrators down a bit. Why’s it always seem to be Championship races which attract this behavior, if these people cannot respect the Fells, go and do the London Marathon or something someone will sweep up after you there. I don’t know what the answer is but it always seems to be gels that people throw away, but after having spent most of Sunday morning clean the gooey mess out of my bum bag I may know the reason why, one answer would be to ban them, the likes of Billy Bland didn't need them and has Graham B states the record still stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
I picked up two between Blacksail and Beckhead and I wasn't even in the bloody race :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by studmarks
good result for the raiding Dark Peak teams, first in the senior and vets cats.
I think organisers should forget kit checks on things like cags but do a gel wrapper count before and after the race and any mis-match should mean disq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggins
A marker pen to write the competitors number on the Gels would be easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
Im sorry but i disagree!Quote:
Originally Posted by studmarks
Just because a certain few drop them, doesnt mean the entire field who obide by general decenty and stuff them back in their bumbags and carry on their way should be penalized!
But, away from the disagreements - anyone who even finishes Wasdale deserves credit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiterrainer
2 weeks! Surely a joke? 2 days is far too long.:mad: If it really does take that long to publish them its a disgrace, feel like I wasted my time (whatever it was). Is there any other sport where an English Championship event and its participants would be given so little respect as to not announce results for two weeks?
:(
Sorry, Graham, certaintly wasn't my intention to diss Billy's Wasdale record (as if :)!).
It was really just my personal view - Peris 2006 was harder for me than Wasdale 2009. Both me and Jebby were 35/40 minutes slower on Saturday than Peris that day, and IIRC Lloyd pushed him much harder then (all to play for with the British after Sedbergh) than Simon Bailey was able to on Saturday.
And, again a personal view as in the heat I run like Pudgy :D, weather makes a massive difference:
Saturday - 18/19 degrees, breeze (no pun intended!) on the tops, water all the way from Greendale and cloud cover late on.
Peris 2006 - 30 degrees at the start, meaning the climb through the quarries was a living hell. No water en route that I could find apart from the table at the YHA, and there was no wind nor cloud. Passed two lads dry wretching with chronic dehydration on the climb up Snowdon, which I didn't see much of on Saturday coming up from the Little Narrowcove col.
TR
TR,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Ribs
No worries.
Your original posting made a general comparison betwen Peris and Wasdale: not your personal experience of two specific races. And if you remember the furore after the last time Wasdale was a Champ race-it had one of the highest DNFs ever recorded in a fell race- when conditions were horrendous, I suggest Wasdale remains supremely tough. Not just the length/height/terrain but the cut-off times.
It was because of the outcry that the cut offs were increased by up to 15 minutes (which is a lot) from 4 years ago.
Some of the giants of fellrunning just cannot hack Wasdale and in my opinion of the regular races it is the toughest.
But I recognise that someone starting, say, the Welsh 1000 metres this year from a personal point of view may have a different view which is why I like to look at record times because I think this a valid criterion.
Graham