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for all my miserable git act (I just like being contrarian, y'know), I was absolutely bowled over and almost in tears on Sunday.
It was good to see most people in the media getting their heads around the enormity of the achievement and elevating it to its proper place.
To think that BW was on the verge of being ousted as Sky leader a couple of years back....
Odd it has taken us so long when Luxembourg first won in 1909, Belgium in 1912, Italy 1924, Switzerland 1950, Spain 1959, Holland 1968, USA 1986, Ireland 1987, Denmark 1996, Germany 1997, Australia 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
Clearly, they must all be countries with a long history of competitive cycling, although didn't the British invent the bike?
Interesting you see it like that. One of the many things people dislike about Millar is his constant apologising for his drugged past. Normally delivered with a dollop of self-flagellation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
I've got an awful lot of time for him, I'd rather hear from a clean ex-druggie than a serial denier. Those that can do the latter with a straight face or either in a minority or very good at keeping a straight face. He's normally good for a non media-trained quote and some proper insight. I'm not sure I'd have picked for the Olympics, but Millar's book is full of self-examination.
I have, of course, read his book, I do not think he should have been selected but I accede that I prefer Millar to the loathsome Virenque.Quote:
Originally Posted by idler
It was Millar's book that changed me from a black/white/ban them for life attitude to it's not that simple/everyone deserves a second chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by idler
That's OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
As long as we agree about Virenque!
I certainly do. Loathsome is a good word for him. What really grates is that he is still popular in France and still is considered a great climber despite doing it doped to the eyeballs. Same with Pantani, I don't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
But they were the type of rider that made the tour "exciting" doing all the heroic stuff up mountains. As was said on this thread by some posters, the tdf was "boring" this year - I wonder if there is a link between drugged cyclists and heroic riding in the mountains :rolleyes:?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlegs
I read somewhere yesterday that the speed Contador went up one climb in a recent tour would have required a vo2 max of 99 - ie either he was superhuman or juiced to the max....Quote:
Originally Posted by molehill
I remember being taken in by Virenque and Pantani as a kid- I still wear my yellow Vittoria road shoes. When the Festina scandal broke and Pantani was exposed as a doper it had a profound effect on me. I was only a teenager and my heroes were suddenly phoneys.
This year's tour may have been boring to some people. I can only suggest they watch Disney films or read Lord of Rings instead - they obviously enjoy fantasy more than reality.
I think this year's tour was more human and all the better for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
So what's your stance on the Brownlees sleeping in an altitude (hypoxic) tent which is equivalent to blood doping? And possibly only legal because of the difficulty in policing their use.
Or millionaire athletes like Paula R. being able to afford to spend months training at altitude?
Ah but they are British?
Isn't that just the same as if they lived at altitude (therefore not cheating)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
....or took EPO?Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
In fact, as a result of taking multi-vitamin tablets I've manged to avoid all manner of coughs and colds to enable me to train harder for longer periods of time. Should get them banned as well.
I don't care much for triathletes, marathon runners or nationalities, but it's an interesting question nevertheless. I think it's reasonable to expect elite athletes will exploit every legal option available to them to enhance their performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
Sleeping in a hypoxic tent and training at altitude has the same effect as blood doping, but it's a lot easier to slip a needle in a vein.
What about those that can afford better equipment? £100+ for some running shoes now, and some can afford and the top get sponsored. Should we make all runners in all disciplines run in plimsols to ensure it's a level playing field?
I can see the alignment with the Brownlee tent and EPO but that would be extremely spurious and cynical.
All the elite athletes will be training and pushing themselves to the limit and using all legal means that they feel can help them be the best they can on the day.
That involves diet, training, living environment, medical support etc.
What is illegal is trying to cut corners by taking banned substances or using banned methods that give a short cut to success and can place an athlete above someone that they do not deserve to be above.
That is what the likes of Virenque, Pantani, Millar etc did in cycling and in their different ways they have all paid for it.
It's a lot easier to sleep in a hypoxic tent than it is to train at high altitudes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
ah well a lot of the responsibility for that lies with the resistance put up against road racing in this country from both motoring lobbies and within cycling itself - right up until the 1970s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
I think the UK is almost uniquely inhospitable to cycling in general and road racing in particular because of the congestion on our roads, the dreadful behaviour of motorists and generally poor levels of safety for and accommodation of cyclists.
It really doesn't surprise me we were so far behind the rest of the continent in road racing.
Shouldn't that be right up to the present. As far as I'm aware from my father, who's organised a lot of road races it's just got worse and worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
Could it be somethnig to do with lack of proximity to serious hills as well? That's my excuse for not being English and British Fell Running Champ 10 years straight, except 2003 when I had an ankle niggle.
The big, and major difference, is that when there is a line drawn Brownlee, Radcliffe et al (hopefully!?) don't cross it. Also I would guess that the majority of elite athletes competeing internationally have access to altitude training etc via there associations etc. Most of the major sports have camps in high altitude areas, when its required, I'd won't they!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
yeah, wouldn't surprise me. Just like the traffic...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
But there was a point (until 1950s?) when there was no road-racing at all in this country, just time trials, and it took decades after that for the sport to catch on here. It might sound like a long time ago but it's hard for a sport to make good that sort of arrested development - we're effectively 50 years behind the rest of Europe.
[Edited because I originally quoted LFF by mistake - which made my post make not much sense - not for the first time I expect]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
we where ;)
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park