Always seeking a negative spin.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
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Always seeking a negative spin.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Good article here, which discusses a number of issues around the vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
https://unherd.com/2020/11/yes-the-v...ly-on-its-way/
It appears the vaccine has to be stored at minus 80 C apart from the last day or two, so it seems GP surgeries would need to be using up their batches pretty much as soon as they have been delivered.
Still, very positive news. Let's hope there are no hitches in the next month, I don't think we could stand the disappointment.
That is a really great article :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
Interesting that the Ebola vaccine needed a minus 60 C "cold chain".Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
I hope the majority don't use it as an excuse to go bonkers leading up to Christmas and New Year, but I fear many will read this news as "All is OK, we are saved in a few weeks so nothing matters anymore".
Far from it. JohnK was the one saying he'd wait to see the long term effects. As the expert on this what timescale would you suggest for assessing the long term effects? I just threw the 10 years in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
You know me, shoot from the lip.
Overall I'm very positive re Covid. It's melts like you that are struggling.
In my teenage years i had a procedure on my foot using Liquid Nitrogen (i believe this is the coldest known element). This was performed in the doctor's surgery, and i imagine stored at some pretty stringent temperature regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
So based on my hazy, anecdotal memory, i can confidently confirm that there are 100% no storage issues..!!
Funnily enough my thinking is more along the lines that, with a potential vaccine on the horizon, now especially wouldn't be a good time to throw caution to the wind. You know, a bit like going out of your way to not catch a bullet on the last day of your tour in 'Nam :)Quote:
Originally Posted by molehill
I've been thinking exactly the same and the anecdote that came to my mind was Armistice Day November 1918 and avoiding getting shot just before the ceasefire at 11 am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
But the Government does seem to be worried that some people will take this as a signal to relax, hence the rather cautious press conference yesterday from Boris and Jonathan Van Tam.
"Melts"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Well I am sure most people on here hold the source of wisdom and calm patience, formerly known as Stolly but currently masquerading as Fellbeast, in high regard; and rightly so.
And for my part, having recently witnessed his most recent private act of erudition and kindness, I will hence forth look up to him as Fell Benevolent.:)
Haha I had no idea what a melt was so googled it - apparently its a derogatory term used 'between males' on Love Island
Need I say more
Now what was I saying about erudition? I would never have known.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
Certainly a derogatory term but one that has been around long before love island, which, by the way, I have never seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
Edit. I heard the term being used by some young lads I know years ago but stand to be corrected as I was unaware that love island has been around since 2005!
melt.... i've also never watched Love Island... probably in the past it was similar to "wuss" or "pansy".
i expect now it is similar to everybody's favourite word of the era... "snowflake" (although i would term snowflake as more related to a mental/political/etc context, where melt could relate to any type of physical/emotional/mental context...)
I think it means a ****ing idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
Plenty who qualify;)
Getting back on thread, I think everyone is getting a little carried away with the roll out of the Coronavirus vaccine, especially in terms of when it will be available.
I'm still waiting for my flu jab. Being under 65 I have to pay for it, which I do at my local Lloyds chemist every year for £16.
This year I have been told, virtually every week since the start of September, by my GP surgery, Lloyds and Boots that there is none available yet for under 65's and to try again next week.
Have the authorities forgotten that thousands die of Flu every year!
I'm 55 and have been getting messages online to advise me to book my flu jab. I assumed I'd hit the age to trigger it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
It seems not.
I can't recall ever having had flu. Maybe I did when a child but I can't recall it. If I've had it, it's manifested more like a cold with me.
My wife had it last when she was 21, 35 years ago nearly. It floored her for around two weeks.
I'm 63 and qualify for a flu jab through getting pericarditis in 2015, and suffering with and all sorts of side effects for quite a while afterwards (heart palpitations, muscle spasms and all sorts). I finally got my flu jab last week. That said due to covid and lockdown etc, flu cases are down massively this yearQuote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
An educational thread today, I've learnt new words I never even knew existed. But being officially old I won't remember them.
I have had flu once in the mid eighties. I was as fit as a fiddle then and it hit me for six, and like your wife WP, was floored for 2 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I think it was called Red Flu on that occasion. Wouldn't wish it on anyone which is why I am keen to get a jab every year.
I'm 62 and I haven't been invited for a flu vaccination, but I'm not particularly worried about that. I seem to get flu on average about once every ten years (last time four years ago), and it's rather unpleasant but never lasts for long: usually two or three days, with no after-effects.
We had flu twice in 4 years, probably 25 years ago, never again thanks and flu jab every year come what may.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK
At least 10 years I would think, after all I have never yet had a flu jab and really don`t see me rushing to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Just out of interest, I've been wondering where I might be in the queue for this vaccine. (Of course, the vaccine might not actually materialise - it's still early days. But I for one am certainly hoping that it does.)
Various newspapers have published the following priority list:
Care homes residents and staff
Anyone aged 80 and over, and health and social care workers
Anyone aged 75 and over
Anyone aged 70 and over
Anyone aged 65 and over
High-risk adults under 65
Moderate-risk adults under 65
Anyone aged 60 years and over
Anyone aged 55 and over
Anyone aged 50 and over
Rest of the population (priority to be determined)
According to the first link below, 12.4 million people in the UK are 65 or over. (I'll assume the vast majority of residents in care homes are 65 or over.) According to the second link below, the NHS employs 1.4 million people and social care 1.6 million people. So, I'll assume 'care home staff and health and social care workers' in the priority list amounts to about 3 million people. How many high- and moderate-risk adults under 65 are there? I haven't got a clue, but I'll guess 5% of the under-65 population of about 54 million - i.e., about 2.7 million. So, in total, that's about 18 million people in the categories with higher priority than me. In my category (i.e., 60 - 65) the first link below gives a total of 3.8 million people. So, there will be between about 18 and 22 million people in the queue before me. As I understand it, the Government have pre-ordered enough vaccine for 20 million people. Presumably, though, not everyone will take-up the offer of the vaccine, so it looks as though everyone in the priority list except the last 3 categories should get an offer of a vaccination in the first round, but I'll be pretty close to the bottom of the list.
How long will it all take? I've seen reports in the newspapers that the intention is to administer 1.2 million jabs per week. But everyone will need 2 jabs, so the 40 million jabs will take a minimum of 33 weeks (i.e., 8 months). So, if it all starts by early December I'll be getting my second jab between early July and early August. (That's assuming everything goes according to plan, which ... well, I won't pursue that line of thinking!)
So, if my sums and information are correct, I hope the Government can arrange to administer the vaccine a bit quicker! (I also hope Matt Hancock actually has put a proper pre-order in, and he hasn't just clicked on a link in an email he received which said something like 'buy your cheap Viagra and Covid-19 vaccine here'!) I further hope that one of the other vaccines gets approval pretty soon too. And it would also (probably) help (me) if quite a few people refuse to succumb to the pressure of big pharma and decline the offer of the vaccine.
Still, the world seems a much better place with more reasons for hope and optimism than it did a couple of weeks ago (in my opinion).
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...lation-by-age/
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...force-overview
[QUOTE=Flem;669302]Just out of interest, I've been wondering where I might be in the queue for this vaccine. (Of course, the vaccine might not actually materialise - it's still early days. But I for one am certainly hoping that it does.)
So, in total, that's about 18 million people in the categories with higher priority than me. In my category (i.e., 60 - 65) the first link below gives a total of 3.8 million people. So, there will be between about 18 and 22 million people in the queue before me. As I understand it, the Government have pre-ordered enough vaccine for 20 million people. Presumably, though, not everyone will take-up the offer of the vaccine, so it looks as though everyone in the priority list except the last 3 categories should get an offer of a vaccination in the first round, but I'll be pretty close to the bottom of the list.
It looks as if I'm in the same group as you Flem.
We might bump into each other in the queue next September:)
Will the Government make it a compulsory vaccination?Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
Not according to the following article on the BBC website. But, just to avoid any doubt at all as to my views, personally, as things stand at the moment, I fully expect to be taking up any offer of vaccination as soon as it's made to me. It's not just that I want to reduce (within reason) the risk of my dying in the near future, it's also that I'd rather reduce the risk of my having to spend days or weeks gasping for breath, and reduce the risk of my having to spend months (and, possibly, years) suffering from 'long Covid'. And, much as I think the various mitigation measures put in place are, on the whole, necessary, I'd like them to be no longer necessary as soon as possible. So, vaccination gets a vote of approval from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by XRunner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51176409
[Question.]
Will the vaccine be compulsory?
[Answer]
No. It will be optional and offered first to those who could benefit the most, such as the elderly and healthcare workers.
England’s Health Secretary Matt Hancock has confirmed: “We are not proposing to make this compulsory – not least because I think the vast majority of people are going to want to have it.”
If it becomes available, children will not routinely be offered it because they are low risk.
Perhaps even at a fell race before next September!Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
I think it’s fine to let people choose as to whether they get the vaccine or not but I’m not convinced that not bothering with the vaccine jab because you’ve never had a flu jab makes much sense. You know what with covid being far more contagious and broadly 10 times more deadly n’all, and long covid, suffered by something like one in twenty (I think I heard that stat somewhere), sounding pretty grim.
I was talking to a chap yesterday about his son, in his forties (and a really good fell runner apparently), who’d been hit by long covid. He has been completely out of breath walking just 100 yards ever since May and is totally knackered all of the time. I’m not sure I ever believed fitness as being any defence from covid anyway but for this guy it clearly hasn’t been...
Interesting question. Part of my work is for a local authority. Last year all employees were told that they were expected to have the flu jab and that anyone who didn't was 1. putting their colleagues at risk (the shaming gambit), and 2. had to contact the Head of their Service and HR to explain why they weren't having the jab (the threatening gambit).Quote:
Originally Posted by XRunner
Now I'm a kind of laid back, easy-going, never say-boo-to-a-goose, sort of guy ( :cool: )but that was a somewhat provocative mandate to me. I've never had the flu-jab, not because I'm an anti-vaxer or whatever, it's just that I'm fitter and healthier than many half my age and very rarely catch a cold (I know that's not making me infallible but I'll take my chances at this stage). Anyway, I didn't get the jab, told everyone I hadn't who asked me (my line mananger, etc) and wasn't/didn't contact anyone to explain my own health choices (but had a pre-prepared line of sturdy arguments to rebuff anyone who dared demand to know why I hadn't). Needless to say I wasn't challenged and didn't receive any sort of reprimand, which rather disappointed me if I'm honest.
I can't see the Government making it compulsory, but they might make some sneaky little ruling that bars those who haven't from access to something or other, using some sort of app (like that would work :)).
Just to be clear again, I'm not an antivaxer and would have the covid jab if offered, albeit I might linger in the queue to see if others morph into some flesh-eating zombies first (note to self: remember to dust off the crossbow).
It is an interesting question and the current Government stance can only be interim because (assuming the vaccine works etc) it begs future questions such as, perhaps, transition from obligatory face mask wearing etc between those that have had the vaccination and those that, for whatever reason, have not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossdog
Perhaps the "nots" should carry a bell, have to call out "(potentially) unclean" and be branded "Enemy Of The People"?:)
As an ex-HR Manager who was involved with line management in the appointment/ promotion/ development etc of many people I was always interested in the power of group culture - and the consequences of developing a reputation for being "difficult" or "not one of us".
Another thing that as far as I know hasn't been cleared up yet is whether this vaccine will actually stop people carrying the virus or not. Hopefully it will but, theoretically at least, it's feasible that while it will stop 90% plus of vaccinated people suffering the effects of the virus it might not curtail the spread to others. If that proved to be the case I suspect a vaccination program might become more obligatoryQuote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
Bollox! That's where I went wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
Aren't there legal consequences here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossdog
Perhaps in a healthcare setting it can be deemed necessary to have the flu jab, but in a local authority I think they are going beyond what they are legally allowed to do.
Surely they haven't a right to even know what vaccines you have or haven't had.
They couldn't even if they wanted to. For starters they haven't a clue how many people are in the country!Quote:
Originally Posted by XRunner
Perhaps the FRA should add "vaccination certificate" to the list of Mandatory Minimum Kit required.;)
You're right. And that would have been one of my lines of argument had I been challenged. I also suspect that explained why no one actually did challenge me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
However, Local authorities are well accustomed to exercising a high degree of totalitarian control over some of their employees, even outside of their hours of employment. For example, in order to work privately and set up my own business, I had to apply for permission to the senior management team at county-level, due to national rules about local authority employees and possible conflicts of interest ( if I recall these are detailed in something they called the 'Purple Book'). I had very little room to negotiate as they could have simply said 'no', with no appeal except to 'take-it-or-leave-it' and I realized my union would have taken a dim view, ideologically, of 'private enterprise' too. After months of waiting and regular badgering I managed to get agreement but with severe limitations on the geographical region I am able to work in independently, even though I only work part-time for the LA.
Indeed, most LA white collar employees aren't even allowed, officially, to do something as minor as a paid paper round without explicit consent - it's ridiculous. I often thought this was very unfair while other 'public' staff, for example, MPs and NHS staff appear to have free rein.
The surest way for the Government to achieve near complete UK sign-up is to use reverse psychology and claim it's only going to be prescribed to old, white, straight, guys.;)...Oh, and Brexit supporters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
No vaccinations are compulsory in the UK. There are quite a few people on social media saying they would decline the Corona virus vaccine - I suspect there will be plenty who are happy to have it in their place.Quote:
Originally Posted by XRunner
https://twitter.com/RP131/status/132...842178/photo/1
Twitter Richard's recent update of the 4 scenarios set out at the Saturday Downing Street Conference nearly two weeks ago.
2 have never been near. PHe/Cambridge and Imperial.
1 was tracking perfectly until they gave the kiss of death and published it at the press conference (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
The 4th from Warwick undershot until the press conference, but is now looking like climbing away from the actual figures.
The deaths on the chart reflect early October infections, which was before even the Tier system kicked in.
His UK Infection chart based on specimen date and rolling average show cases have been flat since 20th October.
So hopefully the increases topped out just before the tiers came in.
The next few weeks will show us.
They'll also show us if the Government then try and claim it was their measures wot did it.