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Hi folks,
This is a thread for those who like a bit of metal in their diet. Obviously running is amazing but some of us like other things or just canÂ’t do it all the time.
So whatÂ’s your preference big chunks of metal or body weight exercises? Share your routines and resources.
No BREXIT chat
I try and get under a barbell twice a week. I try to listen to my body, and have to fit it in around running and work, so I’m not overly prescriptive, but I do something like:
Day 1: squats, deadlifts (3x5)
Day 2: squats, calf raises/RDLs (3x5)
No weights for me, hence I have arms like spaghetti, I do like the Ab wheel, people have laughed and said ‘ha my Nanna had one of them’ but I find it spot on for sorting out the core, it takes very little use to see and feel the difference
Ab wheel is fantastic... I haven’t done a ‘situp’ for years.
I do weights after every gym treadmill session, so around 4 times a week.
Nothing based around traditional strength programmes or anything like that, but enough to keep some basic strength there.
Typically I’ll do 2 x exercises for the back (pull down, weighted row, etc), 2 x shoulder (seated or standing press), 2 x chest (bench press, seated press or cable press), 3 x core/abs (wheel, or ball, or leg raises). Used to do 2 x sets of squats, but at the moment have dropped that down to one and also using some leg-muscle specific machines to hit some muscular weaknesses. Something for the Arms, usually dips.
I don’t go heavy, something that is starting to get difficult after 15-20 reps.
Works for me, and easy to knock out regularly at an additional cost of about 35 minutes.
I don’t think there’s need to worry about gaining weight/bulk. You need a calorific surplus to do this.
As I say above I smash out the weights regularly and I’m still only 2kg above my kickboxing “fight weight”.
I tend to do some strength work once a week. Mainly just functional type compound moves (squats, deadlifts, cleans etc), mainly for injury prevention really. ideally i'd probably do more, but i would rather run!
As I’m still injured and not running a lot I try to mix it up. I’ve started deadlifting again to try and strengthen the hammies in the long fight against hamstring tendinosis. But I also climb so regularly crack out weighted pulls ups and finger boarding.
From a purely running point of view what are people’s opinions on big weights vs high reps for leg work?
Weight experts will tell you that you need big weights for pure strength... but do a couple of seriously heavy squat sessions a week and you’ll be struggling to do much running at all, I suspect...Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew
After all, any race of any kind, from a few km upwards, is an endurance event, so I’m plumping for endurance based squatting, i.e low weight high reps.... the added benefit that I can do it regularly without much adverse effect on actual running training... though I’d certainly have a day or two off squatting before any race...
I am not a sport scientist so take this with absolute buckets of salt, but I focus on increasing my max strength, with the view that this makes endurance work easier as I’m working at a lower % of max effort.
So, slowly and in a controlled way, trying to increase my max weight over time with higher weight, lower reps. Travs is right though, it’s hard to do this and run lots.
I will say though, I find it easier to motivate myself to lift big weights than do tons of easy reps. Each to their own I guess.
Just had a quick look at my training log. Again, take this with a whole condiment rack because it’s an anecdotal study of one, but:
Set parkrun PB on June 15th
The 6 weeks prior I was resting a bad foot and tapering for Ennerdale, so not a huge amount of running.
These weeks I basically alternated ~30 miles total inc one massive fell run, and ~10 miles total. Nowt ‘clever’!
But, every week I was doing at least 2 heavy (for me!) squat sessions.
I obv can’t attribute my glorious 8th place finish and PB to the squats, but I’m guessing they didn’t hurt!
I do most of my hard hill work on the treadmill in the gym, a geographic necessity...
These are usually very draining sessions... so it’s very difficult, if not impossible for me to lift heavily afterwards, certainly for squats, which probably points to my bias for low weight and high reps.
If I squat with anything heavy I always pull my hamstring. Same with lunges. Even bodyweight lunges and I'm out of action for days. I used to do lots of HIIT etc with jump squats. I could barely walk the next day. A PT said it was because I have very long legs!?
Now it's just Pilates every day and kettlebells 3 times a week.
I used to do kettlebells loads with kickboxing, then took a break from them for about a year when I started fellrunning... picked one up in the gym one day, nothing heavy, maybe 16kg, did a few sets, and my hamstrings were in agony the next day... surprising where they hit you!
I don’t want to cast aspersions on your PT, but I find it hard to take them seriously...
I know a couple...
One is a girl I went to school with, and she has absolutely no physical exercise experience other than having done the course and got the certificate. Seen her walking round Parkruns etc... her Facebook name is now “Xxxxx xxxxxxx PT”
The second one I used to play football with and admittedly he’s in great shape. But he was coaching a friend of mine and doing diet plans for him, and allowing him to eat McDonalds.... he was also a total arse, and quit our Sunday league football team because the manager wouldn’t phone him up with a wake-up alarm call...
I’ve played sports for years, occasionally at a decent level, professional in one (I also taught in this sport)... yet I couldn’t get a job in a commercial gym supervising someone jogging on a treadmill... although anybody reading the Today’s Training thread might say this is a good thing... not saying I’m anything special at all, but it does seem that paperwork/qualifications takes precedence over experience... which is quite different to a fair amount of jobs in the “real world”
I love kettlebells. I knackered my knee last week and can't bend it properly as its got 15 stitches. I can still do a full KB workout, just skipping the squats etc. Best thing for a full body workout IMO. I used to do them in the living room but my sweaty hand lost its grip doing swings and it just missed the TV. 24kg going at a rate of knots. I'm now relegated to the garage for everyone's safety.
We used to do sets of 20 x kettlebell swings, followed by bear-crawl across the gym and back, all x5.... it was a great workout but more specific to the sport we were doing rather than running... it hurt.
Another great (and fun... I often used this to finish off particularly serious sessions, or kids sessions) upper body workout, is a partner workout...
Wheelbarrow walk across the gym, when you reach the other end 5x press-ups whilst your partner still has your legs held up. Then you get up and fireman carry them back across the gym. All x3. Then swap roles. Light-hearted but agonising if you do it hard.
Skipping is fantastic for calf strength... if skipping is a chore or,you can’t pick up the technique, then find an old tyre and bounce up and down on the rim of it in bare feet for 10-15 minutes a day (build up to this).
Tyres are useful... a fantastic way to build upper body strength is to repeatedly hit a tyre with a sledgehammer.
…opens eBay…Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
I’d noticed your treadmilling proclivity on today’s training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
Being as I’m probably going to be in the same boat over the winter months out of geographical necessity, do you have any tips/thoughts on how to get the most out of it? (Beyond “turn up the incline and go for it ‘til you’re bored” which is my current plan.
I think if you just turn it up to 15% and then try and run up it as long as possible, you’re quickly going to become bored and extremely knackered.
I try to do things that mimic a Fell Race... for instance 5 minutes power-walking at 15% followed by 5 minutes hard running at around 4%... repeat as fitness allows...
Or similarly, repping between power-walking and “running” at 15%.... depending on the intensity of your run, and the ratio between walking/running, this can be an extremely challenging workout.
Sometimes I treat it as I would a long easy run... chuck it on 15% and power-walk for an hour, like a steady-state run. Can also use this to increase your general power walking pace... for example my “steady” walk pace at 15% is 6.0, which I can happily knock out for an hour (although I’d certainly be sweating afterwards).... but at 6.7 it would be a different matter entirely.
Unless there is a specific need, certainly wouldn’t whack it on 15% at running pace (anything above about 7.2) and just try and bang out an hour. I tried this in order to mimic the Snowdon Uphill race and I think I managed 23 or 27 mins before I had to turn it down and walk a section (which is incidentally a lot longer than I managed before walking in the actual race..!)
It’s certainly a good tool though... a hard hours work can see you around 3000ft climb, give or take a few hundred feet, depending on fitness level.... and like the track there’s no hiding place... the physical need to have to turn the treadmill down once you’re on a hard rep is a powerful psychological deterrent, whereas it’s easier in my opinion to slow down on the hill...
It’s not fellrunning, but I reckon it has its place.
I like to chop a big pile of logs, fantasizing about ex colleagues etc. In a murderous rather than amorous way I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by skipchris
Wait a second... this isn’t a thread for run training! This is about weights, strength conditioning and apparently using big hammers/axes as therapy tools...
Having said that I’d never considered using a treadmill to power hike on.
Time for some rowing and then core work for me
Today I did KB session. Descending 10-1 each side: One hand swing, snatch, squat, row, clean and press, round the worlds and floor press. Minimal rest between sets. Total of 55 reps per exercise per side side with s 20kg KB. I try to do this weekly. Takes around 30 minutes. I'm normally in pool of sweat by the end.
Yesterday it was 2 hand Swings with 32kg KB and press ups. Descending from 10-1 and back up. Total of 100 reps per exercise. Followed by some upper body weights- bench press, rows, bicep curls etc.
Some Pilates both mornings too. Not able to run atm so trying to keep busy.
Another fantastic tool/measure for level of conditioning is 100 burpees. And I mean real burpees with proper form and a press-up in each one... if unsure, look on YouTube.
Can do them in any format you want. Sets of 10, 20, 25, etc.
Incredibly hard to get through. I used to be able to blast through to about 50 then split the remaining into sets of 10 or even 5, with a short rest between.
Can’t remember my best time at it, but think it was 7 minutes something.
Probably not much use as a training tool, but a fantastic test of your level of upper body conditioning (and if I remember correctly, it tested the lower body somewhat too).
We used to do a burpee challenge- in one minute. No press ups though. There's a guy on YouTube I follow Sean Vogue. He does a full 20 minute burpee workout with various types. I've never made it to the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yJblN72Wr2o This one?
TodayÂ’s efforts will be 15minute fingerboard, 5x5 weighted pulls, then some rows, followed by more pull-ups, followed by rows, followed by pull-ups.
IÂ’ve put on weight since a new baby came along 4months ago so need to stop drinking every night, limit my consumption of dairy milk and loose 3/4 of a stone
What weight KB do you use? I’d be interested in trying it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by neilly
Yes, that's the one. I do lots of Sean Vigue stuff. I got into Pilates because of his videos and am now an instructor.Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew
I've got a range of KB s.from 12kg up to 32. I rarely use the 12s now. I use the 16s for high reps, mainly cardio stuff. Things like 50:reps of swings, squats, C+P, snatch etc. I'm trying to build up to 100 snatches with 20kg in 5 mins. I use the 24s for swings and cleans. The 32s are mainly for swings and squats.Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew
Bit of a tangent, but does anyone train with a weighted vest or similar?
Loads of my training is done on my commutes, where i’m carrying roughly 1.5kg of laptop and clothes. Obviously a poor substitute for a 5kg vest or similar, but I doubt it’s doing any harm either.
A few people at kickboxing were in favour of this... but “experts” seem to think it’s not such a good idea as it can affect the mechanics of your movement and running... I’ve had no first-hand experience though...
I'm sure I read of one the former team GB ultra runners doing this. Ran 60mile weeks but was weighted.
I was around 16 stone when I started taking training seriously and I’m now hovering somewhere round 12 and a half, which I believe is somewhere around 20kg loss... so I personally don’t think a 5kg vest will do too much in the way of harm...
It also makes me laugh when people complain about having to carry kit wearing a couple of kg in a bumbag.
To answer the very original post on this thread... I think anything you can do to supplement your running will be of benefit... however my preference is for weights... although you have to be careful not to overdo it so you don’t hamper your running...
Used to walk with 10kg weighted vest. My running strength endurance would increase quite dramatically after a couple of walks. Pull ups and push ups also. Great bit of kit if you ask me!
Check out some vids of Manny Pacquiao's abs routines for some really good exercises in improving core and all that.
Resurrecting this thread from the grave…
This series of articles basically confirms all my prejudices and biases about strength training for runners:
Part one: Injury Risk
Part two: Principles of Resistance Training
Part three: Programming Resistance Training for the Endurance Athlete
I don’t mean to claim that this is a slam-dunk vindication of my view that runners should be regularly picking up very heavy objects: Barbell Medicine have their own very obvious set of biases in this regard; but I do hope it’s thought-provoking and helpful in your training, folks.
Cheers just read those articles. I’m tempted to try and implement it but I wonder how to fit it in. Between running and climbing there’s not a lot of time for “extras”. Do I drop the weights sessions for climbing? Or try and combine them with leg weights?
I think actually coming up with a plan might help it’s all a bit scattergun squeeze it in when I can at the minute
Does weight lifting with pints of ale count? 🤔
It is hard to squeeze it all in, especially when the nature of fell training typically means your runs are going to take more time than a six-mile blast round the houses!Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all answer: obviously we all have our own routines and family lives-or-a-lack-of.
A couple of thoughts though:
1) Periodisation: I’m not qualified to tell anyone how to do an annual plan, but i think we all accept that we should be doing different things at different times of the year. Probably can’t hurt to dedicate 4-6 weeks to 'strength', at the expense of a bit of mileage, then to turn the miles back on and switch your strength work to maintainance mode.
2) Efficiency: If you do buy that being stronger will make you more efficient and reduce your injury risk, then I can’t think of a more efficient way of getting strong than hossin’ around a barbell. I know so many runners who do yoga, pilates, or dead complicated bodyweight strength ’routines’… None of which are bad, stupid or wrong, but none of which are as efficient as lifting heavy weights. I can be in and out of the gym on my way to work in 25 minutes, 2-3x a week.
3) Perfect is the enemy of good: As much as I like those BBM posts above, the author clearly loves weightlifting even more than I do, and has more free time. I’m currently on something like: Squats, Calf raises, Nordics; then Deadlifts, Calf raises, Nordics. It could be good to do more, but i also have a job and kids, so that’s enough for me, and i don’t get wiped out by the 'stress' of not sticking to my plan.
Pints: No; Yards: Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin