I hope Nick doesn`t mind me posting this on here:-
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articl...ary_tale-13350
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I hope Nick doesn`t mind me posting this on here:-
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articl...ary_tale-13350
I think Nick makes a lot of very valid points but personally I still struggle to resolve the issue of taking a mobile phone. My thinking goes along the lines that because it can't be relied on to work when you need it none of my decisions on the hill should be based on the perception that I can dial up for help if I need it. It follows that on that basis I should only do things that I'm happy to do (ie prepared to accept the risk) without one. So I don't carry one but do have most of the other kit Nick suggests - I was out yesterday and had microspikes, spare warm layers, bivi bag, food etc.
I think the problem with mobiles is that there is a danger of making decisions based on the assumption that they will work - therefore some people will expose themselves to a greater degree of risk than they would normally on that basis. The false security of a mobile can override sound judgement.
Having said that I don't think I'm a luddite, I carry a VHF and a PLB when I'm sea kayaking and I use a GPS watch (but NEVER to navigate!). Perhaps I'm just of the generation to whom mobile phones are inextricably associated with yuppies - I'm typing this in one though, although I don't take it out with me,except in the car as there don't seem to many AA boxes around any more.
When I was young and my parents lived in Lancashire if they were traveling to, say, Cornwall on holiday the AA would provide a free typed route description of every road and turn for their journey, particularly noting all the AA boxes.
But unlike a satnav it did not say "recalculating" if we made an error.:)
I remember using the AA atlas to prepare routes to our holidays to the beach resorts of Wales in the 80's and early 90's.
Was always interesting, particularly as our car couldn't always be relied upon to behave on motorways, so generally had to string the towns together.
My mum's annual holiday to Dyffryn Ardudwy in the 50's and 60's was apparently an all-day journey, thanks to their car habitually breaking down, and my grandad's insistence on stopping every half hour for a fag and cup of tea (often the first stop was barely outside of Coventry).
I generally agree with the not making decisions based on having a working phone in signal. Assuming all you have is the non-electronic items in your pack is a good rule of thumb.
However, I would still always carry one on the off chance it did work. I forget it's even in my bag until I take it out upon getting home. I don't think carrying it would cause me to reduce the amount of kit, or indeed the amount of care, I would take, or change my mindset at all. For me personally, I see carrying a phone as having no downsides.
My wife and I have each other on tracker. Peace of mind if I should ever get 'into difficulty' and become overdue......as long as there is signal!
Most of the places I run nowadays I know pretty well, very well or like the back of my hand anyway but, either way, I’d always take my mobile.
I’m fortunate enough to have the viewranger app on my phone loaded with all of the uk ordinance survey mapping coverage which, providing the phone is charged, works on gps so it isn’t mobile signal dependent. And having access to you’re exact position marked on a mini OS map of wherever you are is an extremely useful thing to have on tap. It can tell me my grid reference, with the option to set it to 6, 8 or 10 digits, or alternatively my position in latitude and longitude and other mapping position metrics that I don’t understand at all but make me feel smug for having anyway
My running vest always has a real compass in one of the pockets and my watch, a Garmin fenix 5, also has a return to start function, giving me a breadcrumb trail to follow back if I ever needed to (never needed yet). The Fenix 5 also has a compass. As does the view ranger app and my mobile phone itself.
My phone also has an additional battery capacity storage in its case so a charged battery is always very likely.
I have the ‘find my friends’ app set up with Hester so she can find out where I am (if there is a mobile signal), as too, not quite so handily, can my daughter in Abu Dhabi and my other daughter in Australia :)
I can also take pictures on my mobile too, probably it’s most useful function and the best reason of all to carry it. That and important looking up wildlife identification and other things and places we happen upon on the internet
Why wouldn’t you take a mobile with access to all that?
I take a mobile on all training runs. Also similar to Fellbeast, have a hand-held GPS with entire UK OS mapping on. Always carry a compass too, even if not always taking a paper map with me...
Why wouldn’t you take a mobile with access to all that?[/QUOTE]
I run in the hills to get away from all that!
Same here Mike. Well that's not quite true, I have an old non-smart phone buried in the bowels of my car in case I breakdown/happen upon emergencies as I drive in mainly rural areas (where have all the phone boxes gone :)). I try to remember to check on the battery every few months. It's had £20 credit for years.
I run in the hills to get away from all that![/QUOTE]
And we've little chance of suffering from 'phantom vibration syndrome' (cue the Frankie Howerd Ohhh,,err...missues):)
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a6804631.html
"we run in the hills to get away from all that..."
indeed... but just because you have a phone with you, it doesn't mean you have to answer it, check notifications, etc.
When i'm on the fells and have a phone i will never bother to get it out unless it's to take a photo (or of course the dreaded emergency).... such an emergency which did happen once on Skiddaw in mid-Winter.
I’d never actually answer a call on my mobile (unless it was an emergency). In fact I don’t actually use my phone at all for phone calls :)
It’s a mobile mini computer with lots a fantastic applications that’s also good for sending messages
You're right. I'm was with Orange but now it's ee or similar and I found a text from them with that warning. I simply made a call to my home landline and left a message on my ansaphone so it's re-set now. My main problem is that the battery seems to run down after a few weeks even if the phone is off. That does mean I remember to check it regularly now though.
Fortunately Garmin have updated their "return to start" feature - it used to send you back the way you came even if, after a 20 mile outing, you were only 1/2 a mile away from where you started. Now you can choose this, if you wish, or a straight line direction to where you started. Of course that straight line may not be an appropriate route, but having a direction is still very helpful.
I once received a "have you had PPI mis-sold" call when running in the Sierra Nevada in Spain. I suggested they consider their life choices, having ascertained that they'd studied law - such a waste.
I have to agree with S. I love the ViewRanger app. It's brilliant. I've been on loads of new unknown to me paths and runs (pre lockdown) and it's just so easy to navigate quickly when running. Rather than the faff of getting a big paper map out. I do usually take a paper map just in case but have never needed to get it out. I've got a good few new runs waiting till we can travel a bit further. I have hours of fun plotting routes on ViewRanger.
Also tracking family members when they are out in the wilds gives peace of mind.
Photos are also another fab function.
My partner, who does have a smart phone (tut!), has access to my Ordnance Survey subscription and an OS app, which she uses a lot. I've just checked out ViewRanger for her after reading the above posts. However, reading some of the recent reviews of ViewRanger there's criticism that VR have "sold out" to "Outdoor Active" - what's that about?
She didn't install the VR app as it asks for credit card details. She's decided to stick with my OS subscription for now that I use on my Macbook pro and which I pay for :rolleyes:
Mossdog I don’t really know anything about Outdoor Active and their merger with ViewRanger. I think (but am really not sure about this) that on view ranger you can (or could) make your own routes available to other users and earn credits towards other maps that you needed to purchase and, as part of the merger, some users were worried they wouldn’t be able to do this anymore. That doesn't really bother me and I haven’t ever thought of sharing my routes through the app anyway.
I also have the OS app and the advantage of that is that you get the whole of the U.K. for an annual subscription. On ViewRanger you purchase the OS explorer map tiles that you need just like buying real maps. The big disadvantage to the OS map though is that it’s on-line only which means that maps can either take ages to load or, as we found in the wilds of Scotland, not load at all due to lack of internet
In defence of the OS map app, you can download bits at a time for when you know you'll be out of mobile range. And that's at no extra price. So you could go on a touring holiday, and just download the maps you needed for the following day - eg, if you had wifi at your stopovers.
I pay twentyfive pounds a year and get the whole of the Uk through View Ranger.
(I don't understand Outdoor active and haven't used it).
I use it for planning routes and measuring them. Which I do on the computer or IPad. You can label and save your routes in your own private collection.
Then I use it to navigate on my phone (when running) when I have worked out where I am going.
You can download the route onto your phone and follow the line but I prefer to just get it in my head and then use the map to navigate. The GPS feature that tells you exactly where you are on the map if you press the magic button makes it very quick and easy.
I don't share my routes or look at anyone else's so don't know how credits work.
I don't need to as I am so good at planning routes. Ha ha.(Only joking but I am good)
Seriously would recommend. I know you are all tight fellrunners but it is well worth it for hours of route planning and running.
I have tripped over a speed bump (and hit the tarmac) on a track while looking at my phone - so use running while looking at your phone navigation with caution!!
Think this shows that technology has its uses... But not totally in place of map & compass, and should never be totally relied upon.
And obviously no place for it in races.
The trouble with maps is that a) they’re really unwieldy, especially in bad weather, and b) can be lost or left behind too. I’ve found a few maps left behind while out in the hills. It’s fair to criticise technology for its potential although unlikely failure but don’t lose sight of the fact that maps can have their own critical failings too :)
Maps - Mountain Rescue carry them, but do they use them? Of course they don't.
To me technology just takes away part of the experience. Yes, I admit to using a GPS watch and I'll look at it for time and distance while I'm out but I use it primarily to record and review my training. I'm also not too proud to admit that I'd use it to get my location and reorient in an emergency. However the difference for me is largely that navigation is part of the sport - would you rather buy something or make it yourself if you had the ability? Would you rather ride an electric bike over Honister Pass or ride a proper bike over it? And in either case could you legitimately claim satisfaction from the easier option?
I agree with the navigation being part of the fun. I think I’m just saying that a map and compass are also ‘technology’, just not as up to date technology as a smart phone and mapping app. You don’t have to use either but can if needs must
On the topic of navigational skills, I'd recommend watching Shackleton's Captain? Captain Frank Worsley, arguable the true hero of the entire escapade, navigating using a soggy sexton, fag-packet calculations, in a dirty bashed open boat, crossing heaving angry antarctic seas, in winter storm conditions, over hundreds of sea miles, to hit the small 'speck' of isle of South Georgia.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1730698/
I can't remember if it was on Netflix or Amazon, but worth checking out.
I know we are now into wonderful Spring weather and I am about to go for a run on Winter Hill but when we had those sub-zero temperatures I would always take fully charged phone and my sol survival bag, running in microspikes (a bit awkward for the tarmac parts as I ran from home so had a couple of stretches on the road which had cleared of ice and snow).
Re ViewRanger, I found it immensely useful when walking the GR36 in France as I could download the maps where I had access to wi-fi onto my mac mini. I didn't need it so much on the signposted GR36 but it came into its own when making my way back off the GR to where I was to stay on my final night which had rail connections back to Caen (the GR36 goes all the way from the ferry port of Ouistrahem down to the Pyrenees - I had two weeks on the northern section)