Help in beating Dad

Ok, here's the general gist.

I'm 15 years olds and have been running fells for about half a year.
My Dad is 46 years old and has been running fells for over twenty.

On Wednesday nights we train together over distances of about 8 to 10 miles. Being naturally competative and possesing healty amounts of pig-headed stubornness, I set myself the challenge of beating him. I currently train about 60-70 miles a week, mostly just normal hill sessions, but with one session of hill reps and one of interval training. He only trains three times a week, but does longer sessions.

I can generally compete with him on the flats and pull ahead on the climbs, but he destroys me on the downhill sections. I just can't seem to go that fast, he just utterly motors and always finds the best line down a fell, even if we've never done it before. I've heard all the "brakes off brain off" theories for descending and it'd not a fear thing, I just can't get the speed without going into a horrible flapping feet style of running that quickly gets me knackered.

Is it a style thing? Is there an area of training I've missed out on? Is it a kit issue?

Please, this is an appeal to all you seasoned veterans out there, how can i improve my descending, what am i doing wrong? :confused: :confused:

Sorry I can't really help you on how to beat your dad - I am crap at running :D

However I do know how you feel - my dad is 62 tomorrow :eek: and he runs far better than me! Git! :D

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Originally Posted by Xenos

Ok, here's the general gist.

I'm 15 years olds and have been running fells for about half a year.
My Dad is 46 years old and has been running fells for over twenty.

On Wednesday nights we train together over distances of about 8 to 10 miles. Being naturally competative and possesing healty amounts of pig-headed stubornness, I set myself the challenge of beating him. I currently train about 60-70 miles a week, mostly just normal hill sessions, but with one session of hill reps and one of interval training. He only trains three times a week, but does longer sessions.

I can generally compete with him on the flats and pull ahead on the climbs, but he destroys me on the downhill sections. I just can't seem to go that fast, he just utterly motors and always finds the best line down a fell, even if we've never done it before. I've heard all the "brakes off brain off" theories for descending and it'd not a fear thing, I just can't get the speed without going into a horrible flapping feet style of running that quickly gets me knackered.

Is it a style thing? Is there an area of training I've missed out on? Is it a kit issue?

Please, this is an appeal to all you seasoned veterans out there, how can i improve my descending, what am i doing wrong? :confused: :confused:

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No point asking me either - I just sprint then fall down the hills - it's been witnessed there's no denying it:o

i used to be pants at descending too, much improved now but still not great - experience helps. Not flat out descending but plenty of running in the hills gives you the confidence without thinking to know where to put your feet.
basic speed/strength training seemed to help me. chair squats and lunges and speed sessions.
in the short term try to run short strides with knees always slightly bent and that'll allow you to gather momentum fast.

Cheers, basically I'll just get out there and do it more! I suppose he does have 20 years of practice behing him. So, speed stuff, strength stuff and practice, ta. Well, that or I sabotage his fell shoes......;)

Any more suggestions welcome.

Getting some decent shoes that aren't 2 sizes too big might help. Get your dad to buy you some.

Wait for him to get old?

Although 46 is actually quite old already.

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Originally Posted by Mud

Although 46 is actually quite old already.

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No it's not :eek:.

Nah its not, especially considering Joss Naylor's planning a 70 peaks at 70. Not to compare my Dad to Iron Joss but fell running does seem to be one of the best reces for the older generation, isn't the average age for the Bob Graham 35 or something? Anyway when you look at people like Wendy Dodds, doing a 53 peak Bob Graham at 51, Ive no hope for a while yet on that front! No, there's no alternative, I guess I'll just have to [shock horror!!!] do something about it!

Keven Shevels book , downhill running is a good little book, think its trailguides.com or .co.uk gives u ideas on training

When you're doing your hill reps, time them on the way down as well - don't just use descents as a recovery but belt back down to the start!

No suggestions from me - my 16 year old leaves me well behind on the descents, the steeper the better for him. I need some distance to get anywhere near him.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by marty mcfly

When you're doing your hill reps, time them on the way down as well - don't just use descents as a recovery but belt back down to the start!

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so when do you have the recovery?

I was thinking the same Penquin , that session sounds a killer.

er, after the up & down bit ;) .

My step son is 37, an army staff sergeant and runs.
I am 55 later this year.
I run him into oblivion on the hills, he has no chance whatsoever over any distance - he's c**p :D
This is how things should be, wait till your dad's 60 and perhaps he will let you win one day :cool:

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Originally Posted by Penguin

so when do you have the recovery?

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20 - 30 secs stretching at the end of each.

Job's a good un.

Maybe I'm just slow but I find that the limiting factor on my downhill is foot/ eye coordination, not breathing/ lactic etc.

aha fellrunner, cheers, i win todays prize for the thick reply, sorry. On this subject , my brother usually keeps up with me on long races , similar in age but diff is he never trains but works as a Shepherd , chasing lambs etc up hills, seems to work for him. So befriend a farmer and chase his/her sheep, but don't get shot lol

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Originally Posted by Alf Tupper

chase his/her sheep

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Well I am Aberdonian, its a popular passtime... :D ;)

Actually I seem to be getting a little faster, oddly enough it seems to be a result of some sessions Ive been doing on the stationary bike. Interval sessions at world hour record pace hurt by the way......

Cheers ALF, I'll have a nose round for the book

Just a point that occurs to me. 60-70 mpw sounds a bit high for a guy you're age. Ease back a bit and work more on quality might help