Details & entry form available at the WFRA site http://www.wfra.org.uk/ , click on events.
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Details & entry form available at the WFRA site http://www.wfra.org.uk/ , click on events.
Eh up fellrunners. I can't believe nobody has started a thread about this British Champs race yet. :eek:
The old man's up for this one. Heard him muttering about it sounds like a little belter of a course.
Many years ago I recall walking off Yr Elen and the old man saying something like "My gosh, this is steep. Wouldn't it be funny if, twenty odd years from now, I were to try running down this in a British Champs fell race!"
And soon, uncannily, his prophetic words will come true.
Surely worth a good turn-out from the forum.
Woof!
Thanks Pike.
Are you doing it? Doesn't look like anybody else is.
Woof!
Two things have persuaded me to do this..."the inclusion of the summit of Carnedd Llewellyn (just to make it a bit harder)" and "the sting in the tail – the ascent of Gyrn Wigau (CP5). If it is a hot day then you will very likely suffer here."...sounds like fun to me :D
Whats it like? Rocky? Boggy?
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...ight=carneddauQuote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dog
woof, woof ;) .
I'm up for this one. It's a great race with a sapping long run up. Some boggy bits low down but otherwise good paths and some great grassy sweeps down. As I recall the run-in takes forever.
See you all in The Douglas afterwards!
Touche!! I see your thread got a big response as well :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Fellrunner
Anybody know what the crossing of the Afon Caseg is like? I seem to recall the old man having a mini-epic trying to cross the Afon Llafar on one occasion (he's not too keen on water, you see :rolleyes: ).
Woof!
OOOOh, naughty children. I'd like to do this one if I can wangle the time off. Brilliant course, one big tough climb from memory, great descent, weeeeeeeeeeeeee......... Don't ever recall having to do any swimming.....
Another thing, you need to go to Bethedsa, end of the known universe:eek:
Checkpoint 3 to 4??
Direct or down the North ridge to pick up the path that sweeps round?
Thanks for any info, Ali
Is the beer any good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Straight off the end, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ali
I'm just looking at the map for this coming weekend and trying to work out which way the route goes, just to get an idea. I'm looking at the map that Pike posted the link to and also the OS 1:25 Snowdonia, and I can see the path from Carnedd Dafydd along Cefn Ysgolion Duon/Bwlch Cyfryw-drum to Carnedd Llewelyn and then accross to Yr Elen but then I have no idea. I gather to get to the sheepfold CP at the foot of Gyrn Wigau you have to cross Afon Caseg somewhere, so is it just a straight line descent from the top of Yr Elen...looks a bit steep/craggy to me :eek: Also how to you get up to Carnedd Dafydd in the first place? I've never been up these wee hills before, so as a Carneddau virgin who will hopefully just follow the long line in front of him, I would just like to get everything right in my head beforehand just in case the clag is down.
I ran most of this with with a mate who is racing on Saturday. I've got the WHW race so won't be there.
On saturday in thick thick cloud it was bloody hard going. It starts with a long run in on roads, some down hills, then a k or so through fields, then a long ascent on short grass, up the ridge towards CD - this is all very runnable. At the top (~last 200m of ascent) of CD you hit scree, which can be quite large in places. In good vis you can connect up grassy runnels and run all the way up to the summit, but we just took a direct line. From the cairn you follow a fairly good path all the way to CL. This path often drops off slightly to the right avoiding the rocky ridge, but again in the thick cloud we just stuck to the ridge.
At the final col, you head up CL, a wall towards the summit runs straight up into the summit cairn so is a good handrail. Here is the tricky section. I know this area fairly well so tend to run north for 2-300 m then traverse around the slopes just below the summit avoiding the rocks, along the top of the crags, to the cairned path. A more direct line may be easier, Once you pick up the Yr Elen ridge it's easy to get to the summit.
The Yr Elen summit is right at the back, it's like a baseball field summit, flat and grassy, but where you (well I always do) think the summit is, it isn't. The summit is in the back right corner. From here the descent ridge heads straight off. It's easy to pick up and easily visible ~ 5 m from the summit cairn.
This is where we had issues. I only had a paper map I'd printed out and the contours were barely visible by now due to rubbing thumbs, and thought I'd found the area for the descent which heads off in a straight line towards the sheep folds after Afon Caseg. But in the clag we opted just to carry on down the ridge and out - as we both had family/friends commitments. We didn't get out of the clag until we hit the walls right down at the farm land. I'm not sure the descent point from this ridge will be marked, and it's not easy to find. I'd say the best way would be to have an altimeter watch on and descend until the right height and combined with the features head off. In thick clag on your own, I'd imagine it would take some convincing to leave the path.
In many ways I hope they don't mark it off as it's such a great traditional fell race, but with the recent fatality in a race in the area, then I couldn't blame the organisers for deciding to mark that point - although there's no crags once you are off the top section of the rocky ridge.
I've been through the bottom of these valleys a few times, you can often pick up sheep tracks through the bogs, and the sheep folds area quite obvious when you get there. The caseg isn't a big river and normally easily forded.
Good luck, it's a great route, but in thick clag a few will do a few extra miles. I found the 10 miles to be too short, we did 10.5 (as measured by watch gps) on Saturday and missed out GW so I reckon it's over 11 maybe nearer 12. Should measure it on Anquet.
Direct line. Almost as the crow flies from what I've been told by other local runners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali
Thanks for that IainR, thats a great help.
IainR - I think your posting is an example of the Forum at it's best
What happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
In this years welsh 1000m peaks race a competitor, in the Mountaineers section, fell off Craig LLugwy. It was reported on the BBC and on here at the time.
Three hours to go...hope the cloud lifts
Anyone got the results? Been wet and cloudy down south so bet the conditions weren't great!!
Not a chance!Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbob
On the way there we went via the Conway Valley and Capel Curig and drove along the Ogwen Valley through a nice little downpour. The Carnedds were obscured, Tryfan was looming through the mist and there was a great mass of cloud boiling up in the Devil's Kitchen. Hmmm.... could well be a map and compass day.
We splashed thrugh Bethesda and out along the valley to the big climb up Dafydd. Then a lot of very slippery rocks on the way round to Llewellyn. A marshall on top waved an arm into the cloud - "That way". After a few steps the old man had the sense to check his compass as there was nobody in sight and we eventually made it to Yr Elen without too much of a mishap.
Thanks to the marshall with the Acme Thunderer on the col between Llewellyn and Yr Elen as runners were starting to choose some peculiar lines.
At last we dropped below the cloud and could see the final hill. A slog up Gyrn Wigau and then a weary wobble following the flags to the finish.
Hope everyone got back safely.
No idea who came where, or who did what, we had to leave straight away.
Woof!
Left just after prizes
123's were
Rob Hope
Rob Jebb
Ricky Lightfoot
Janet McIver
Sharon Taylor
Anna Bartlett
Full results should be on wfra website soon!
Looked as if there was still someone unaccounted for at the end. Hope it was just a miscount!
I too went too far laft and John with the big whistle had people coming at him from all directions. Lovely downhill towards the sheepfold helped to get some of the places back. Rather have a bit of clag and rain than hot sunshine on a race like this though.
Last man was found and counted - someone from Yorkshire I believe!
Haven't been back long, so just a quickie:eek:
Brilliant day, really good tough race, rain, not too much during the race but very wet slippy rocks!
Lots of peeps running round in circles between CD and CL and then off to Yr Elen:D Didn't hear anything about the remaining runner, hope it was a miscount though Ross was looking a bit hassled. Brilliant descent off Yr Elen, good soft grippy scree at the top then a huge top speed charge down grass to the valley floor, as I had said previously...wwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Bit of swimming in a bog then a climb we could have all done without!
Many thanks to Ross and all the Eryri guys who came out in huge numbers on the mountain to help out. Really good job, thanks guys. I expect that the results will be on the wfra website tomorrow.
What did you say at the start of this thread?
Don't ever recall having to do any swimming.....
And what did you do today??!!
Echo all that you said about organisation. Top notch all round.
Finished at grey Bethesda to a down pour of biblical proportions, so the later finishers would have copped it.
Found the ridge between CD and CL much more challenging than I remember it. Grip on rocks varied between 100% and Zero which was 'ukin' annoyin'.
Managed a 'concealed' bonk on climb up Gyrn Wigau but otherwise enjoyed a proper tough high mountain race to the full.
Not v happy with some of my fellow competitors attitude at stiles though. I gather some wall climbing occurred. Shame on you. Have some ruddy patience and respect the terrain fer chrissakes!
Ah yes, the swimming thing. In rivers I meant, got across that ok, just happened to hit a bit of bogland just after, up to my chest in something unmentionable, must have been a very tall bog! had to swim to get out, bloody exhausting!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
And yes, I forgot that earlier, those people who scaled walls and gates just to avoid queueing for the stile to save a few seconds deserve a good bo**ock**g. I was appalled. Reckon some damage was done to that wall. Don't come back:mad:
"John" Was well intentioned I am sure: and made one of the biggest mistakes you can make in the hills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Harrier
It is quite simple:
A whistle means "emergency in distress" and should not be used for anything else. What is worse he used 3 blasts as his call sign
A cowbell is a directional sound - but a whistle is not - it does not have the low frequencies needed to discriminate direction when echos are present- so in gullies it appears to come from any direction
From Carnedd I went NW till at the top of the ridge and then I heard the whistle, an unmistakable distress signal which to me was coming from below me down one of the gullies. I was in clag and could see noone and nothing.
I spend 20mins to half an hour searching for the runner in distress: I downclimbed and upclimbed two steep gullies looking - for whoever was making that signal: before heading in the direction of marshalls only to discover the real source of the sound.
Be warned
The only reason mountain rescue was not called was because I could not get a signal on my phone there.
Consider: what would have happened if mountain rescue had been called out, to find a marshall using a whistle?
And suppose a runner had also been in distress - he would not have been found because of the number of blasts from johns whistle.
"John" was very misguided.
A flare means "boat in distress" and should be used for nothing else
A very interesting point Alwaysinjured. As you say, the use of the whistle was well intentioned and probably helped more people than it hindered. It certainly helped the large group I was in as we were still just above that point but way off to the left. I'm sorry that it ruined your race though and I wholeheartedly agree with the special reservation of distress signals. The actual marshal point on Yr Elen was using a cowbell. John the whistler was not at a marshalling point but could see people going off the wrong way. I'm sure he just acted on an understandable impulse.
And in any case, isn't a whistle supposed to attract a would be rescuer to the location of the injured party?
Good on you for throwing your race to come to the aid of a suspected injury.
The interesting thing is that although a whistle is light, and easy to carry, it is too high frequency and too single frequency to be a good directional indicator in terrain where echoes are possible. Sure, for people approaching "john" from the south east, the ridge is mainlyl vegetation so I am sure the whistle was easy to pinpoint. But in amongst the rock features north east it was a lot harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
This is the same problem that old fashioned mobile phone single tone ring tones had: have you noticed how modern polyphonic tone phones are so much easier to locate?-thats because the multiple frequencies and low frequencies allow your ear to notice the difference between the direct path of the sound and the echo.
Get in amongst big rocks , and it is incredibly difficult to tell where whistle noise is coming from - to me it seemed to be coming up from below on the N side of the ridge.
In any event IF there had been an injured runner as well as "John" it is very likely the injured runner would not have been picked up.
Results are up...
http://www.wfra.me.uk/
Ignore the column after club name, looks like gibberish to me.
Got our club right.
Nice to see that the 'official' Welsh Mountain Racing Club managed to field as many runners in a Welsh championship race as our little amateur outfit from the dark corner of SE Wales;)
PS Toff, if my countback is right and non of the english runners are welsh eligible, it looks like we came 11th and 18th!
Like to add my thanks to the organisers and marshalls, a great route and event.
Must admit I thought everyone was v patient at the stile. Perhaps they could have flagged us to the gate 30 yards left? Hindsight eh?
Cheers, Ali.
I didn't mean the club name column, but the first runner category one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
It has Mike Fanning as a V50 and Garry Wilkinson as a F.
Don't think either would be pleased with that !!!
As for the stiles, one or two were looking to be sneaky round the outside, but a few choice words from those in the queue soon stopped those ideas.
I think the rests did me good anyway.
I went wrong off Llewelyn big time. I could have sworn that I left in the right direction but must have drifted right over the boulders until I picked up what I thought was the path as there were stud marks. I should have checked the map/compass but I blindly trudged on until I came across a sole female walker who informed me that she was on the way to Foel Grach and hadn't seem any other runners since the last summit. She checked her GPS and sure enough I was halfway to Foel Grach! I decided to double back below the boulder field where I caught sight of another runner who looked like he had done the same, but I went a bit too low and had to climb back up the steep side above Ffynnon Caseg. Once back on the top I checked the map and headed off in more or less the right direction until I heard the whistle slightly to my right so headed towards it and picked up first the path, then the marshal. I was surprised to catch sight of some other runners as I headed up Yr Elen after having wasted at least half an hour. Then in a desperate attempt to catch those in front went over on my ankle on the descent to the river from Foel Ganol. Going up Wigau wasn't so bad, but hopped most of the way back down until it levelled out and finally managed to put a sprint in and catch up with two guys by the finish. Enjoyed a pint a the finish I can tell you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Thanks to the organisers, great event and a big thanks to the marshals to waiting around for us tail enders with offers of chocolate and water :)
so who`s the ``official`Welsh mountain racing team then ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
try googling mynydd du.
And their massive turnout cannot be blamed on the GB trials the week before...only 2 there as well. Wot's up chaps?
Ross, see you are viewing. Did everything go OK? You looked a busy bee so we left well alone. Well done mate, cracking race!
i would have thought that ERYRI would be the `official `mountain racing team in Wales?
although not a fantastic turnout by them either,but to be fair they do have the sense to know what the Carneddau are like in bad weather
Looked to me as though a good number of Eryri members who would normally race were out on the hill helping out.
Yes they were. Great support lads, thanks.
Sorry, used wrong adjective. Should have said 'premier'.;)