"Cant come through 'ere mate"

On Tuesday I went for a local run, across the fields along some footpaths nobody every really uses and that I've only ever been on once or twice.
There is a section that is poorly signed and I had to make up my own route through some woods to find the footpath again.
I followed a footpath that I've used before, that brings you out to a farm house and some out-buildings.

There was a guy on the roof of a van, tying something down. I already knew that if I followed the track, maybe 1/2 a mile later I'd come to a road, but I didn’t want to seem rude or 'odd'....so I played dumb and asked which way the footpath went rather than blanking him and running past.

The guy was maybe 30, he told me that there wasn’t a footpath, and that I cant come through ere mate. He said I was on his bosses land and he wont be very happy if he see's me and he told me to leg-it and get off the land quickly.
I told him that I'd just come off a marked footpath and It was pointing straight at the place we were standing at, he denied it once again and told me I cant keep coming though here.

Anyway, I did what he said, and followed the track to the road.
When I got home I checked with my grandma and she said she's been that way before, and I went on multimap and used the OS feature and the footpath goes straight through the farm.
So, the lad maybe didn’t know what he was talking about...perhaps not being local and he certainly didn’t look like a runner.


What should I do though, continue to use the footpath as im within my rights...and its a cracker of a route and risk getting an ear full.
I thought of printing off the route and carrying it as proof incase Im questioned again.

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Originally Posted by Al Fowler

On tuesday I went for a local run, across the fields along some footpaths nobody every really uses and that I've only ever been on once or twice.
There is a section that is poorly signed and I had to make up my own route through some woods to find the footpath again.
I followed a footpath that I've used before, that brings you out to a farm house and some out-buildings.

There was a guy on the roof of a van, tieing something down. I already knew that if I followed the track, maybe 1/2 a mile later I'd come to a road, but I didnt want to seem rude or 'odd'....so I played dumb and asked which way the footpath went rather than blanking him and running past.

The guy was maybe 30, he told me that there wasnt a footpath, and that I cant come through ere mate. He said I was on his bosses land and he wont be very happy if he see's me and he told me to leg-it and get off the land quickly.
I told him that I'd just come off a marked footpath and It was pointing straight at the place we were standing at, he denied it once again and told me I cant keep coming though here.

Anyway, I did what he said, and followed the track to the road.
When I got home I checked with my grandma and she said she's been that way before, and I went on multimap and used the OS feature and the footpath goes straight through the farm.
So, the lad maybe didnt know what he was talking about...perhaps not being local and he certainly didnt look like a runner.


What should I do though, continue to use the footpath as im within my rights...and its a cracker of a route and risk getting an ear full.
I thought of printing off the route and carrying it as proff incase Im questioned again.

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Apart from your spelling/typos;) the final 2 sentences answer your question for you - so yes continue but worth taking the map to show anyone (assuming they are capable of reading/understanding the map!!).

It may also be worth contacting your local rights of way officer (Lancs CC for you?) to express concern about the lack of signing and ask them to liase with the farmer/landowner to ensure the FP is properly signed through the farmyard.

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Originally Posted by Multiterrainer

Apart from your spelling/typos;) the final 2 sentences answer your question for you - so yes continue but worth taking the map to show anyone (assuming they are capable of reading/understanding the map!!).

It may also be worth contacting your local rights of way officer (Lancs CC for you?) to express concern about the lack of signing and ask them to liase with the farmer/landowner to ensure the FP is properly signed through the farmyard.

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I couldnt be bothered checking the spelling...I was trying to eat my dinner at the same time.


Contacting the rights of way officer is a good shout, I once tried it a while back about a farmer having blocked off a footpath...turned it into a fence for his sheep....I emailed the rights of way people to be told my local 'person' had just died.:rolleyes:

As your local fella is now pushing up daisies - http://www.ramblers.org.uk/info/brit...law.htm#rights

This may assist with any questions you have - I had a similar thing in an area where I used to run as the path went right along the boundary of a secluded cottage and they objected to me running past there in the summer.

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Originally Posted by sore legs

As your local fella is now pushing up daisies - http://www.ramblers.org.uk/info/brit...law.htm#rights

This may assist with any questions you have - I had a similar thing in an area where I used to run as the path went right along the boundary of a secluded cottage and they objected to me running past there in the summer.

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Thanks alot!

Ive had a search on google and theres a feature called 'mario maps'.
It shows each footpath with a number, so when the nice people from the LCC get back to me with who they'd prefer I contact I can tell them the exact footpath that I got badly lost on, got a million and one nettle stings and got chased by some rather large dairy cows (all in the space of less than a minute) as well as my new friend who prefers me not to come through.

He's probably just a miserable git. I'd keep running there. It's not like he'll catch you if he sees you.

If it's marked on an OS map as a ROW path then take your map with you and show it to any one who complains. Politely point out that if you are refused or there has been a deliberate attempt to bar the path with barbed wire or growing holly etc then this will information will be passed on to the relevant authorities.

As someone who 'occasionally' runs across fields and through farms, I find that it helps not to look too professional with farmers - so wearing posh running togs with reflective stripes, hi viz colours, orange reflective triathlete sun glasses, pirate hats and humping huge garmins on your wrist is a no no and always likely to put the local farmer's back up. Equally you mustn't look too amateurish either - running in road shoes and clean running togs is a total give away and you'll have the dogs set on you before you can blink.

Ideally try and look like you know what you're doing and, if you stop to say anything, don't ask directions what ever you do. "Lovely day" will do just fine and it works even better if said when its actually pissing with rain. Old tatty running stuff, ideally plastered in mud is perfect equipment and maybe wearing normal shorts (I often wear what are essentially not too lary surfer beach shorts) rather than high cut running shorts (or worse still body hugging lycra cycle shorts) all adds to the 'I know what I'm doing so don't ***k with me' look.

I haven't been shot at yet :)

Wise words indeed stolly :rolleyes:

The 'lovely day' thing works though....I usually say "Reet" or "Oreet" very enthusiastically.....or even better, mutter something, go abit red in the cheeks and spit when I talk.....yeah, the farmers are inbred round here.

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Originally Posted by Al Fowler

Wise words indeed stolly :rolleyes:

The 'lovely day' thing works though....I usually say "Reet" or "Oreet" very enthusiastically.....or even better, mutter something, go abit red in the cheeks and spit when I talk.....yeah, the farmers are inbred round here.

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I get on quite well with the local farmers here.
I think having a border collie helps as he is instantly something they recognise that they relate to. I very often stop and will point out a if someone has say trashed a stile or a gate has been left open etc etc. They are quite thanking of it.

There is one place that has lots of horses that has put an electric fence up with no way through it( ie a hook to lift off so you can get through) . I pointed that out and they sorted it. Not for me but for others who cannot get under it.
In winter I will go off the paths when its dark just to alter my routes a bit. No one minds as lots of the paths never get used.

Having said that tonight probably someone will have a go at me.

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Originally Posted by daz h

I get on quite well with the local farmers here.
I think having a border collie helps as he is instantly something they recognise that they relate to. I very often stop and will point out a if someone has say trashed a stile or a gate has been left open etc etc. They are quite thanking of it.

There is one place that has lots of horses that has put an electric fence up with no way through it( ie a hook to lift off so you can get through) . I pointed that out and they sorted it. Not for me but for others who cannot get under it.
In winter I will go off the paths when its dark just to alter my routes a bit. No one minds as lots of the paths never get used.

Having said that tonight probably someone will have a go at me.

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My nearest local farmer is actually our milkman - no, he's not my dad or any other milkman relate jokes.....I had a word with him and he let me use one of his fields for hill repping "Aye go on then, best of luck t' ya lad"

I once had a full on conversation with one farmer who must have had abit of time to kill....was asking where I'd come from, where I was going, why I was running in the first place.
I didnt tell him that the week before his entire heard of dairy cows went mental when I stepped into the field and started charging around and smashed through a fence :rolleyes:

Al, what you will find is that it is not usually the farmers, whose forefathers have farmed the spot for generations, that are the problem. More often than not it's the incomer yuppies who think that buying a country retreat entitles them to a million acres of privacy around their newly titivated 'palace'. What I always try and point out to such people (when I'm certain that I'm on a public right of way) is that they should not be complaining to legitimate users of the route; their 'beef' is with their solicitor who should have pointed out the existence of a PROW when doing their 'search' at the time of purchase.

I totally agree about opening up a narrative with landowners whenever possible. I now know most of the farmers in my immediate vicinity and make sure I always let them know about dead sheep, broken gates etc.... once they see you as a "mobile information gatherer" they're very friendly.

I know what WD means about newer generation landowners and you'll often find PROW either blocked or hidden with signage removed. Check and double check your map, take it with you and prove you have a right to be there.

Thanks alot Gents,
Useful info there!

Some landowners have been known to remove signs and block PROW. My dad as a village councillor and rambler used to have alot of fun cutting barbed wire in the 70s. So, yes, exercise your rights of access on PROW.
Be aware though that maps can be out of date and some landowners will have gone to the trouble of diverting a path legally, eg where a path traditionally went through the yard they can have the path diverted around the edge of the property, sometimes there is a notice to tell you this, sometimes the notice fell off 5 years ago, but the new path should be signed.
Always best to be polite though. Most people are understanding.

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Originally Posted by Al Fowler

My nearest local farmer is actually our milkman - no, he's not my dad or any other milkman relate jokes.....I had a word with him and he let me use one of his fields for hill repping "Aye go on then, best of luck t' ya lad"

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Same with my local farmer, I had a chat to him and he now lets me run up to a trig point that's not on a right-of-way. He knows that I cover that patch of his land more often than he does so he's happy to trade the access for occasional info about broken fences, fallen beasts etc

I was at the University of Pamplona last week (the one run by Opus Dei).

The route of the ancient pilgrimage, El Camino de Santiago (de Compostela), which reached its peak of 1/2 million pilgrims annually in the 11th /12th centuries, actually goes through one of the main university buildings so at all times of the day walkers with rucksacks and Leki sticks can be seen tramping through the hallowed (good word in the circumstances) marble halls in their muddy boots.

They are welcomed and the university porters "stamp" the walkers' cards to prove that they have done the correct route.

All very civilised and anyone is free to use this example when next in friendly discussion with a local English farmer.

Al i've just got off the phone to my gran, grans are great aren't they, she has been a lifelong member of the Ramblers' Assoc. and a volunteer for the Wetherby footpath group. If you want to persue this you must contact the local authority/council and request to see the 'Definitive Map', this will confirm if a right of way still exists. Anyone can ask to see it, and if there is a right of way you then have to report the farmer and await action from the local authority. Explain that there are no yellow waymarkers for it is their responsibility for placing them and you can't do this yourself. Personally i'd persue it if it were me, especially if it's good running ground, but you've probably got friends and a life so i'll leave it in your hands ;).

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Originally Posted by GrahamB

I was at the University of Pamplona last week (the one run by Opus Dei).

The route of the ancient pilgrimage, El Camino de Santiago (de Compostela), which reached its peak of 1/2 million pilgrims annually in the 11th /12th centuries, actually goes through one of the main university buildings so at all times of the day walkers with rucksacks and Wiki sticks can be seen tramping through the hallowed (good word in the circumstances) marble halls in their muddy boots.

They are welcomed and the university porters "stamp" the walkers' cards to prove that they have done the correct route.

All very civilised and anyone is free to use this example when next in friendly discussion with a local English farmer.

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Not wanting to hijack this thread, but...

I've always been pretty appalled by the lack of PROWs in Spain. Having bought several walking guides for different regions, many of them are littered with examples like "the farm at the start of the route has now been bought and the landowner won't allow people to access across his land. Because of this, the 12 mile walk is now inaccessible apart from every third Sunday when it costs €5."

We should think ourselves very lucky we have PROWs, and not take them for granted.

University of Pamplona? Had someone tipped you off about the copy of Studmarks they have in their library or what? :p

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Originally Posted by GrahamB

I was at the University of Pamplona last week (the one run by Opus Dei).

The route of the ancient pilgrimage, El Camino de Santiago (de Compostela), which reached its peak of 1/2 million pilgrims annually in the 11th /12th centuries, actually goes through one of the main university buildings so at all times of the day walkers with rucksacks and Wiki sticks can be seen tramping through the hallowed (good word in the circumstances) marble halls in their muddy boots.

They are welcomed and the university porters "stamp" the walkers' cards to prove that they have done the correct route.

All very civilised and anyone is free to use this example when next in friendly discussion with a local English farmer.

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

University of Pamplona? Had someone tipped you off about the copy of Studmarks they have in their library or what? :p

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Now Andrew, you didn't really expect me to tell a prosaic anecdote about some white-tile university did you?

Lots of the footpaths round here actually went from farm to farm - one goes past our kitchen window. Lots of new comers don't like it, but make them apply formally for a diversion and get them to put proper access and signage on. This has happened a lot around here in the past 5 years, but you're still welcome in our garden!

The Peak and Northern Footpath Society do lots of work in resolving issues with footpaths in the Staffs/ Derbs/Yorks/ Lancs/ Merseyside area

I emailed the Lancashire Country Cousil, and they requested I write a report stating everything and they will forward it to the relevant authorities. So Its in their hands.
The person who contacted me seemed very helpful so only time will tell.

Al have you had a word with the land owner?

I wouldn't get the council involved over something a farm hand has said to you, best going for the person in charge, if they say the same thing then fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Baggins

Al have you had a word with the land owner?

I wouldn't get the council involved over something a farm hand has said to you, best going for the person in charge, if they say the same thing then fair enough.

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When I emailed them, I was more emphasising the poor footpath signage. I did mention about what the lad said and did state that he wasnt the land owner, just an employee. I'll propably run through their again next tuesday and I'll see what happens.

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Originally Posted by Al Fowler

When I emailed them, I was more emphasising the poor footpath signage. I did mention about what the lad said and did state that he wasnt the land owner, just an employee. I'll propably run through their again next tuesday and I'll see what happens.

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That sounds ok.

Yes I'd keep running through there if its a right of way.

I've had every kind of treatment from farmers. Lately they've been just normal and friendly when I've waved and said "Hiya". One thing that does irk farmers is people who come on their land and don't say anything. They interpret that as stuck up townies who think they own the countryside.
(One thing that irks me is other runners who don't acknowledge me when I say something... then I notice the wire dangling from their ears.)

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Originally Posted by Stolly

As someone who 'occasionally' runs across fields and through farms, I find that it helps not to look too professional with farmers - so wearing posh running togs with reflective stripes, hi viz colours, orange reflective triathlete sun glasses, pirate hats and humping huge garmins on your wrist is a no no and always likely to put the local farmer's back up. Equally you mustn't look too amateurish either - running in road shoes and clean running togs is a total give away and you'll have the dogs set on you before you can blink.

Ideally try and look like you know what you're doing and, if you stop to say anything, don't ask directions what ever you do. "Lovely day" will do just fine and it works even better if said when its actually pissing with rain. Old tatty running stuff, ideally plastered in mud is perfect equipment and maybe wearing normal shorts (I often wear what are essentially not too lary surfer beach shorts) rather than high cut running shorts (or worse still body hugging lycra cycle shorts) all adds to the 'I know what I'm doing so don't ***k with me' look.

I haven't been shot at yet :)

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you haven't been shot yet as they can't hold the gun steady for laughing

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Originally Posted by Man from Del Monte

you haven't been shot yet as they can't hold the gun steady for laughing

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Says the man who runs in a cycling top covered in oranges :)

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Says the man who runs in a cycling top covered in oranges :)

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hee hee hence my name!!
but its great for stuffing things in the pockets which saves carrying a bag

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Says the man who runs in a cycling top covered in oranges :)

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So that was you passing me between High Seat and High Pike Hill yesterday MfDM?

Didn't spot the new shoes but I did ask about your bike when I saw the shirt (I ride an Orange)
Pity I didn't put two and two together but I know who to look out for now. :D

Did you have a good run? You were going well when you passed us.

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Originally Posted by tinyman

So that was you passing me between High Seat and High Pike Hill yesterday MfDM?

Didn't spot the new shoes but I did ask about your bike when I saw the shirt (I ride an Orange)
Pity I didn't put two and two together but I know who to look out for now. :D

Did you have a good run? You were going well when you passed us.

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yes that was me. did not start until 9:30am as i forgot I had to go to a 50th party the night before. did 4:33 in the end, 3 minutes faster than last year, but i had a change of shoes left with the marshalls at checkpoint 4 and changed into them as the inovates were eating my heels.
how did you get on

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Originally Posted by Man from Del Monte

yes that was me. did not start until 9:30am as i forgot I had to go to a 50th party the night before. did 4:33 in the end, 3 minutes faster than last year, but i had a change of shoes left with the marshalls at checkpoint 4 and changed into them as the inovates were eating my heels.
how did you get on

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A seriously slow and sociable 5:13 MfDM - ran round with a mate who's just getting back to running after knee problems and we never stopped nattering.
I'm obviously spoilt after the Vasque races and LDWA events because it was a real disappointment not to get fed at the checkpoints - I'd worked out that 14 checkpoints meant I'd finish the race at least a pound heavier. :D

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Originally Posted by tinyman

A seriously slow and sociable 5:13 MfDM - ran round with a mate who's just getting back to running after knee problems and we never stopped nattering.
I'm obviously spoilt after the Vasque races and LDWA events because it was a real disappointment not to get fed at the checkpoints - I'd worked out that 14 checkpoints meant I'd finish the race at least a pound heavier. :D

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that would be good getting fed on the way round.
I am from KL originally and went to school there

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

Al, what you will find is that it is not usually the farmers, whose forefathers have farmed the spot for generations, that are the problem. More often than not it's the incomer yuppies who think that buying a country retreat entitles them to a million acres of privacy around their newly titivated 'palace'. What I always try and point out to such people (when I'm certain that I'm on a public right of way) is that they should not be complaining to legitimate users of the route; their 'beef' is with their solicitor who should have pointed out the existence of a PROW when doing their 'search' at the time of purchase.

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There are a few places in our local area where owners have maintained the signage, but housed their geese at the start of the paths. Eg there will be a stile/gate from a track, through a goose pen/enclosure, and then out into the garden/land. There seems to be no practical reason to site the enclosures in such a way and the cynical part of me thinks this is just a way to deter people from using the paths. There's nothing like being charged by an angry goose to raise my already rapid heart rate...

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Originally Posted by Lost Sheep

There are a few places in our local area where owners have maintained the signage, but housed their geese at the start of the paths. Eg there will be a stile/gate from a track, through a goose pen/enclosure, and then out into the garden/land. There seems to be no practical reason to site the enclosures in such a way and the cynical part of me thinks this is just a way to deter people from using the paths. There's nothing like being charged by an angry goose to raise my already rapid heart rate...

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You will have to let me know where these places are so that I can pop up just before Xmas -
in the role of Self Defence I can manage to sort my Xmas dinner out !! - Bonza :D

Couldn't agree more. Take a big knob-kerry, but do make sure you are on a PRoW.

I saw a great sign on a gate in the hills above Bolton Abbey at the week end --> "Be aware - cows with calves and a bull in this field". Letting a bull roam with the herd is pretty much standard practice in the summer, in most of the Dales anyway, but maybe, just maybe the local farmer was trying to put off some of the more touristy and naive walkers that that frequent Bolton Abbey that aren't so bull friendly :D

Some useful stuff here, on a more serious note:

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/info/brit...ootpathlaw.htm