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Hi, I ran in the Bampton Sports race yesterday with my Garmin Forerunner on. Having analysed my HR for the race I am alarmed that my HR went up to 225bpm at about 0.3 miles and dipped back to 203 bpm at 0.4 miles before raising again to 226 bpm at 0.6 miles. It then came down to about 165 - 172 bpm for the remaining 5 miles. Is this something I should be worried about or are these "spikes" normal when setting off like a lunatic. :confused:
were you passed or did you pass any other runners. there HRM may have interfered with yours
HR different with everyone but spikes can occur due to interference from power lines or cross over from other HR straps or weak battery/poor contact to chest. Usually in a race my HR peaks to near max on the approach to the finish, not just after the start! If the majority of your race was at 175BMP and you were running at race pace then I would suggest the spikes were not representative of your actual HR. The heart can 'flutter' or beat shallow and very fast due to certain medical conditions which also could show such high readings but If this was the case I do not think you would continue to run hard as you would become inefficient and have to slow down/stop in order to regain homeostasis.
If you are who i think you are consider two things. Recovery from a BG takes a long while longer than you think. Had similar results with a suunto HRM in the weeks after my round so i started running without it as it freaked me out too much. With some HRMs you can get very high initial readings for it to settle back to normality. In a suunto this usually means the battery in the transmitter needs replacing. Don't know anything about the garmins on this aspect though. There was someone asking something similar on UKClimbing a while back. Maybe worth have a search on there.
Iain
I suspect that the early part of the race might be an incorrect reading for whatever reason. The 165-172 sounds more normal. Nearly 4 beats per second I suspect might be fatal after a short time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazfrapeerith
I agree. Either your heart is at fault or the HRM. I forget the medical term for a run-away heart, but you would certainly have felt it and quite likely would have stopped running or fallen over. I'd suspect the HRM was playing up.
I have a Garmin Forerunner, and I always get an incorrectly high reading when I first turn it on. I now turn the Forerunner on as I warm up, and reset for the run/race.
I've had this but for me its usually the chest strap & sensors not quite right, Ive found if I moisten the sensors and/or adjust the strap things settle down. Plays havoc with your averages when downloaded though!
I also get high HR reading with my forerunner in the first 1/2 mile of any run. They're normally about 190, then settle down to 145, which is what they should be.
Like Duncs says, if you moisten the chest sensors, it tends to work better.
I've had similar high readings with different monitors, usually before I have worked up enough of a sweat to make good contacts with the chest belt. (I also wondered if the 'jarring' of running on hard ground could send false additional signals if the contact between belt and skin is disrupted momentarily?) - I did Bampton as well, my HRM said an average of 163 and max of 178, which is higher than I would normally expect but this race was flatter and faster than most fell races so that could explain it. However a friend of mine running at the same race (I dont think its you Gaz, unless thats not your real name, but he is from Penrith) had some very high readings on his monitor as well so if a few people experienced this on the same day at the same race perhaps there is another explanation - but I cant think of any power lines or mobile phone masts near to the route that might explain it.
My HR often seems to rise in the first half mile or so and I put this down to the aerobic system kicking in. I have had high heart rate readings before (once when climbing up onto Askham Fell 205 bpm) and i dont think it was due to interference or having just done the Bob. It may be the sensors but I tend to get no reading at all if the sensors arent moist.
Nevermind I seem to be OK so I wont worry too much although I would have freaked out a little had I seen 225 flashing at me though!!!
Thanks Gaz
A heart rate of over 220 BPM sounds alarmingly high. I think the advice around checking the gadget and its accuracy is good. You could, if you wish take your own pulse although it would be very difficult to count at such a high rate. Try counting over six seconds and multiplying by ten. I am also presuming that you did not have any symptoms whilst having ? such a high HR?? If you did then a trip to your GP would be advisable. There are many formulae to calculate whay you max HR might be but ost use the 220 minus your age formula.
I have had my Polar show freak highs when the battery was giving out, but they were only momentary spikes.
I have also had a few incidents of tachycardia (ultra fast heart rate). With the first my HR went up to 200, which for a person then 67 was way above my notional max. Surprisingly, I didn't feel that bad, except for the worry, but I certainly couldn't have run fast for very long. The high HR continued all morning - maybe 5 hours - but gradually coming down. It left me feeling pretty washed out. Since then I have had a few more incidents, but with my HR only going up to a less worrying 170 or less. This is never associated with exercise, but comes on while still in bed in the morning or shortly after getting up. My normal HR while still in bed in the morning would be usually max 60.
After the 1st incident I saw a GP who made light of it. He obviously thought someone who routinely checked her HR every morning must be a complete hypochondriac. I tried to explain that this is something many runners do but ... Later, after a few more widely spaced incidents, when I had 2 attacks in 1 month I went to another GP who sent me to a specialist. I have been very satisfied with the care at the hospital. I got to wear a 24 hour monitoring device, which picked up a few abnormal beats I hadn't even noticed. What they really need in order to find out what is going on is to do an ECG while I am having an attack, but since then I haven't had one. If/when I do, I have to get myself to the hospital and they will ECG me straight away, day or night.
Naturally, I have researched this problem thoroughly. The danger is that when the heart beats so quickly it is beating very inefficiently. The blood is left pooling in the heart and clots can form, resulting in, worst case, stroke.
I suggest that anyone who experiences an ultra high heart rate for any length of time, (momentary spikes are OK) especially if it occurs more than once, should get checked out, and also research remedies on the web. There are various medical strategies, and also home remedies that work for some to stop the high heart rate when it is happening. What works varies enormously from person to person. I have tried all the home remedies and for me, the only thing that works at all is to walk gently (NOT run) in the open air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
Thats a bit of a coincidence Alex
Read this
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...384#post348384 post 160
I'm having a heart rate monitor fitted on Wednesday for the above condition.
Apparently this form of Arythmmia is not uncommon in endurance athlete. Basically the top part of the heart vibrates rather than beats/pumps which as you say allows the blood to stagnate which could lead to blood clots after 48 hours leading to a possible stroke. Where as this is more common in 60 plus's you are 3 times more likely to get this than the man in the streets but you are 6 times less likely to get heart disease.
Since the word has got round about my recent episode I have had 4 other runners say they have had similar experiences.
I suffer from WPW syndrome of which there was a thread a couple of years ago, this is very similar and in my case was what triggered my recent trip to A&E.
As to the exercices you mention to lower the heart rate I have been dooing these quite successfully for 20+ years and can now lower my heart rate just by thinking about it. very Zen. Give me a PM if you want to talk about this further.
Ian
I certainly will - your post has already given me lots of info I hadn't succeeded in finding for myself. But surely everyone would like to read about the HR lowering exercises - perhaps in a separate thread. I'm not quite sure they are the same as the strategies I have tried eg plunging the face in ice cold water or an ice pack over the heart, in order to shock the heart into behaving properly, neither of which works for me. Another suggestion is to take a valium and lie down. I got some valium from my GP (after a thorough grilling to establish I was not proposing to become addicted) but have had no incident since so obviously haven't tried it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
226 BPM used to be the default reading on the common use HR algorthym. It appears on the screen once the HRM knows that it is receiving a signal but that signal begins to fail for some reason, lack of moisture on contacts or increased distance from sensor to transmitter. It is not reading your heart. Moving the chest strap or adding moisture will usually clear the problem and return your wellbeing. This is not to say high readings should be ignored in general, it applies specifically to this one figure ie 226. There was a thread about this some years back, older uncoded Polar models appeared particularly vulnerable.
Hope this makes you feel a little less worried. If in doubt, I'm sure the manufacturer would confirm the
algorthym default for you.
This is absolutely fascinating! How did we ever manage without this forum, and others (sort of) like it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola
Hope I wasn't out of order, I know nothing of the medical issues but used early Polar HRMs and it was a common issue. Thats how the exact figure came to light.
I wasn't being sarcastic, I really value your contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola
Just had some one email me with the same exact same condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
I would be very interested to hear about other people's experiences of this problem. Everyone is welcome to pm me.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Just wanted to add some reassurance here. There are many heart conditions that can give similar symptoms of arrythmia and many of those conditions are not life threatening. And also to some extent being too aware of your heart rate can be self perpetuating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
I say this as someone who has a diagnosed heart condition, diagnosed about 12 odd years ago, that can cause my heart to go from 60 to 200 in an instant just when sat down doing nothing. 24 hr tracing showed many episodes of fast heart rate a day. But it is a sudden increase. It is the reason I don't use a heart rate monitor for training.
My personal advice is that if you don't feel unwell during a supposed increased reading then it's probably a misreading on the HRM as during episodes of very increased heart rate you will feel it (due to the lack of efficiency in pumping oxygen around the body) and the longer it goes on the more unwell that can make you feel. But I stress that for many people such episodes are not dangerous.
Further, usually with heart conditions the change is sudden (up or down) and not gradual.
As for techniques to lower heart there are some techniques that involve pressure on particular arteries, in the neck for example. But they never worked for me.
If you feel unwell during episodes of increased heart rate, don;t panic but go to your doctor for tests. I stress most arrythmias are nothing to worry about and worrying can make the matter worse.
If you don't feel unwell then consider the fact the HRM may be wrong. HRM's often say I'm dead so I don't bother. So go on how you feel not what your HRM says IMO.
sound like you have Wolf-Parker-Wight, as you say not serious but it can be, best to get it checked out though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
I went out tonight and pushed quite hard in the last race of our summer series that I could attend, Certainly the hardest I've pushed since my trip to Hospital. felt really good except I've lost a bit of race speed, either way threw away a second place after missing a path junction. still a hard won third was good enough:D:w00t:
I'm just back from being 'zapped' back into normal rhythm a week before my 'final' check since my last (third) ablation back in November.
I'd started the Arnison Horseshoe on Saturday, felt rough and tired so pulled out at the top of the first field, however didn't feel the AF until an hour or so later back at home - HRM showed 130ish resting pulse - thought I'd be able to correct things, but couldn't! Anyway 25 hours later I'd been 'zapped' back into normal rhythm, note to self; try not to go into AF on Bank Holiday weekend again!
Glad you're back to normal. I wonder whether you were feeling "rough and tired" because in fact the AF had kicked in for a while during your sleep the night before. I can find no correlation at all between my activities and bouts of AF, in the sense that AF can come on the morning after strenuous activity but also the morning after days of relative incactivity. However, I do find I sometimes wake feeling off after what was apparently a normal night's sleep, leading to under-performance the next day (seriousfor me as my performance is already pretty low!). I am considering the theory that I am having minor bouts of AF during the night. Maybe you too had an unnoticed episode of AF while asleep, and then another later in the day, and the fact that you attempted a race in between had nothing to do with it. Just an idea, but perhaps worth bearing in mind if you are feeling nervous about your next race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
Me too Chris Glad you are ok.
Feeling nervous just fuels it in my opinion. My WPW only kicks off when tired/run down and when my heart is slow. It very rarely goes off whilst exercising. I had a brief episode on holiday the day I was due to fly home but then I'm not a lover of flying.
[QUOTE=IanDarkpeak;357284]Me too Chris Glad you are ok.
My WPW only kicks off when tired/run down and when my heart is slow. /QUOTE]
Yes, it's ironic isn't it - I have spent years checking my waking HR hoping that my fitness activities were lowering it, only to find a low HR may trigger palpitations. Lucky I was never successful in getting my HR super low. I have also read warnings that athletes with low HRs are MORE at risk of DVT when flying. So any athletes about to fly should not think they can rest on their laurels, but take extra care to move around regularly and do exercises in their seats.
Thanks guys! It puzzled me why it kicked in, but I had a very tiring physical week and had not warmed up, a possible reason, but I hadn't thought about AF at night. Next week I have this planned 24 hour tape as part of the 'final' check, that should show any night time irregularities.
I should also have mentioned that the doctor came out with WPW - the first time I'd ever heard of it - but when he saw my notes ruled it out quite quickly. Anyway I'll keep this thread posted on my outcome from next week, and may well suggest at our next FRA meeting a new trophy/championship for AF's, WPW's and any other HR problem athletes!
A man's maximum heartrate is approximately equat to (220 - age)bpm. A rate of 226 is most likely an instrument error. Try wetting the contact between the Garmin and the skin from the start and you might get a true reading straight away.
ydt
ydt that calculation can be way off, my max is 198 and that calc would put it at 191 and others have reported being out by 20 beats. Although you may well be correct about the instrument error.
I did use the term 'approximately'! My own max. heartrate was always higher than that given by the approx. formula. I would not say that 198 is way off 191!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkshire Rob
ydt
I know mine isn't way off although it's still enough to affect training, but I know of others that are. I was just making a general point that formulas for working out max HR aren't always accurate. There are also better formulas out there for calculating, but none really replace a max test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ydt
I find for a fit person that 220-75%age much more accurate but yes a proper test is better, mine was 193 done at Linc uniQuote:
Originally Posted by Yorkshire Rob
Out of interest, Ian, do you know what rate you hit with the tachycardia? I understand it can get to around 250 bpm, which is definitely on the light-headed side.
I believe the '220 - your age' guide has a fair safety margin built in.
Got my old 'Polar' to start reading at...........226! In the car, next to my mobile, with fluctuations from around 195 to 245. Dropped to 62 when I switched off and got out of the car, phew!! No energy or inclination to try running yet, may try a short spin on the bike tomorrow.
As far as max goes, I have no idea these days, so long as I wake up with a resting pulse above 42 and below mid 50's, I know I'll be able to run OK........I haven't taken training seriously for years now.....its great!
I "tried" measuring it years a go on a polar we had in the shop and it hit 220 but not sure if that was the max on the monitor or how accurate it was?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotherton Lad
How are we all doing on here? After just getting the better of the NHS admin, I'm now wearing a 'lifecard' for a five day trace to go with the ultrasound ECG done three weeks ago. So I've done a couple of runs, some hard physical work, a bike ride or two, eaten and drunk all the wrong things, stayed up late and got up early. Everything seems fine......why do I feel tired :wink: ?
I've been out doing a fair bit, got big plans for next year so needed to know I still work, after effectively 4 weeks off I've done the 3 S's The LDMT and the Rab, still not up to full race speed but the climbing is nearly there. ran all the way up Loose Hill on Wednesday (Skyline ascent) Not flat out but not stopping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
I've had no occurance of said AF and just a couple of short bursts of Tachacardia which I delt with in a few seconds.
Going to see the specialist on Monday at Halamshire Hospital. I'll know more then, hopefully it will be a "one of those things" and not a "I've got some bad news..." Although if there was a problem you would have thought they would have rushed me in...fingers crossed.
I hope I get a clean bill of health...I'm racing that evening....;))
I have had no more noticeable episodes, but strongly suspect I have shorter so-called silent attacks while asleep, causing me to wake up feeling very tired. Your "lifecard" sounds a good idea. Is it comfortable? I found the large apparatus I was fitted with for the 24 hour monitoring very cumbersome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
I bought a strapless HRM (Oregon Scientific) so I can check instantly when I think I might be having an episode. Interestingly, I can feel as if my pulse is racing but actually my HR is normal - I think maybe it's anxiety. So I'm glad to be able to check and not worry.
HOW did you deal with it???Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak