Junior Do and Relays

This will be in my backyard this year on Saturday 11th September 2010, a little while after the last race, which should allow us to be very accurate with T-Shirts etc.

The day will start with a mixed relay, i.e. teams of varying ages, genders and quite likely clubs. Then we will have a meal in a local hall, with the prize-giving. Broughton is a lovely place to visit, so staying over and taking in a run the next day might be a good idea, or pop over to Burnsall.

I am still trying to work out the exact details for the relay, but all classes will probably be mixed in together in one big race. What I am trying to achieve is an event that will be fun but tough racing, and will allow runners to mix with those from other clubs, different ages, abilities and genders. Although the event is in our local park, the terrain provides an almost Lakeland challenge, just ask Broughton Runners about our time trial route!

This is what I have so far.

Mixed teams of three, each team to complete 12 laps of the appropriate loops, approximate winning time 40-45".

Two loops.
Loop one 800m with 40m climb, for Over 10s
Loop two 400m with 20m climb, for U10s and U8s

Teams can split their efforts however they like, except that they each have to do a minimum of 3 laps (2 for U8s). Kristian Edwards may not run 10 laps!

As an example, for a team of one U18, one U14 and one U12 who decide to do 5 laps, 4 laps and 3 laps, they will run: 4.0Km, 200m climb; 3.2Km, 160m climb and 2.4Km with 120m climb.

The tactics should certainly be interesting, do you put your fastest runner first to get a good start? When will the youngest runner be best to go out? Can everyone get a break after each lap or will someone have to run two laps in a row?

Any suggestions for improving this, please let me know!

Hi Lecky,

I know this format is still to be finalised, and also quite laid back, but I have some questions.

Question 1.
If I have 1 x U16, 1 x U14 and 1 x U10 doing the 5 lap, 4 lap, 3 lap as you have outlined above, would the U10s 3 laps of 400m still count?

If so, it may be best to just put out teams of U10s as they will run half the distance. Or are you looking at having an U8/U10 event and then a U12 - U18 event?

Question 2.
There could be quite wide differences in the teams put out - eg. Team A could be made of 3 x U18 Boys and Team B of 3 x U12 Girls.

My gutt feeling is that you will either have to :-

1. Make some age and gender categories so that clubs can work out their teams - maybe a weighting system.
or
2. Make it a drawn contest on the day to try and get fair teams from the athletes that turn up.

Example of a weighting system (assuming we have U12 - U18 in one race and U18/U10 in a separate race)

Each age category carries a points tally.
U18B = 10
U16B = 9
U14B & U18G = 8
U12B & U16G = 7
U14G = 6
U12G = 5

All teams of 3 are only allowed a max team score of 24.This means that teams are limited a little and have to use differing age categories & genders.

Or you could take the total team score and handicap it - each point is worth a minute - so a team with 20 points sets off 5 minutes before a team with 25 points.

The same system could be applied to U10s and U8s.

Just some thoughts.

WP my take on the whole thing is that it isnt clubs putting teams in but teams being put together on the day from who is there so you might have a BBH with a CVFR with a WH and they could be of any age. Therefore its going to be best if all names go in a hat as you suggest in point 2 above

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clash City Rocker

WP my take on the whole thing is that it isnt clubs putting teams in but teams being put together on the day from who is there so you might have a BBH with a CVFR with a WH and they could be of any age. Therefore its going to be best if all names go in a hat as you suggest in point 2 above

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Possibly so CCR. But I can tell you it's a job and a half just to put on a "entries on the day" race for 100 people and you need at least an hour for the registration, let alone a relay event with mixed ages and clubs, team tactics / strategy, different route options.
So let's say 100 athletes in 12 differing age categories that have to be registered, put in to teams, someone will have to "team manage" at least to decide team orders and how many laps for each.
Let's say that the races start at 12:00 noon. I would say that you would have to close entries at 11:00am just to have a chance to make up the teams, inform the athletes, who may well be walking the course, and decide who runs which leg and allow them to warm up accordingly as for a 12:00 start some will start there warm up at 11:30 and others at 12:00 noon.

What about latecomers? Do they miss out?

The idea in principle sounds fine - in practise it may be more difficult but I'm sure Lecky has thought through some of this.

But its primarily about fun amd shou;dnt be taken too seriously (warm ups aside) kids can sort themselves out with who runs when it would be known already what any runner from any age group runs which will help. i agree it wont be easy and doubtless some will miss the point about fun leading to a few disgruntlements. Its worth a try just to make the presentation event a little different as it keeps it fresh, if it doesnt work it wont be repeated in a hurry.
I wont be there so I hope it all goes well.

As discussed on a previous thread, there are insufficient numbers in each age group for an equitable club based relay event. This method should provide some end of season fun.
Potential team managers can download a team 'ready reckoner' here.

I have no problem with any of this at all - Felljunior refers to method - I just would like to see a little more explanation of the method so that I and the athletes that will be attending from ours have an idea what to expect.
I have already had quite a few queries but haven't been able to put any meat on the bone other than to say there will be a different type of relay prior to the presentation.

OK

Thanks for all the advice.

This is what will happen.

As the Do HAS to be pre-entered (or we don't know how many meals to cook etc) most people will pre-enter the relay. I have printed out a lot of entry forms and will send them to the organiser of the Darwen Race to hand out. This will also be available at broughtonrunners.org.uk/relays shortly.

The aim is to have runners from different age groups and clubs mixing and getting to know one another. So, I will allocate runners to teams, hoping to get balanced teams, mixed across age/gender/club. I will fail at this, and will produce some very strong teams and some not so strong, so sorry in advance for this.

If people turn up on the day, then I will make up teams on the spot (and fill in any gaps for those who don't turn up).

Teams will sort out running order themselves (you may give advice).

Adults may form teams that will be non-competitive (mainly because they aren't as fast!)

The relays will start between 12.00 and 1.00pm, depending on when we are ready. There will be a 30 minute notice, so people can warm-up.

The Do will happen at about 2.30pm.

How does this sound?

Sounds fine - I'd just check with the Darwen race organiser to make sure that they are happy to distribute your literature ;)

Please would you hand out my flyers?

go on then :)

Hi Lecky. It is a long way for us to come from Scarborough for a fun event, which for us would include the costs of overnight etc. How do you suggest getting trophies, T shirts etc to us??
Mike w

Mike/Lecky

I don't know how many people would come over Mike but I would be happy for a couple of people to stay with my family here in Kendal for a night. I'm sure I could arrange for some more places with other Helm Hill Juniors if you let me know numbers. Be a shame if you couldn't make it and recognise the cost/time implications, but if you wanted to come over I'm sure I could arrange places around Kendal for you to stay, let me know and we could hook up to arrange things.
Duncan (Helm Hill jnr coordinator)

The Kepplewray Project, on the outskirts of Broughton (everything is very close in Broughton), are doing the catering for the Do. They have some reasonably priced B&B rooms available that weekend.

Check www.broughtonrunners.org.uk and follow the Junior Do links for details.

Hi

The deadline for getting your T-Shirt sizes to me before the Do has been pushed back to the end of Friday 3rd September.

Don't forget to let me know and enter the Relays. If you don't let me know in advance you may not get a meal!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lecky

Hi

The deadline for getting your T-Shirt sizes to me before the Do has been pushed back to the end of Friday 3rd August.

Don't forget to let me know and enter the Relays. If you don't let me know in advance you may not get a meal!

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are you sure your date's right? beckie's a small.

Anyone got a contact email for Wharfedale?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lecky

Anyone got a contact email for Wharfedale?

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Their still use smoke signals up there ;)

Assuming that you are after David Hird his phone number is on the Wharfedale website http://www.wharfedaleharriers.org.uk/contact.html. Best ring rather than email. Alternatively PM me because I might see him at Muker tomorrow - he was at kilnsey today.

Final details for the Relay and Do are now on the Broughtonrunners.org.uk website.

Where is the actual Do?

Back at Registration in the Victory Hall.

Photos are now on show at broughtonrunners.org.uk

Have a look, there are some pretty good ones of most of the runners.