1.2km zip wire fleetwith pike

There is a planning application in to put a 1.2km long zip wire from near the summit of fleetwith pike to the quarry at honister. If you want to comment on the application the link is:

http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/index...ent-search.htm

The planning reference number to search for is: 7/2010/2092

There is a thread debating the pro's:confused: and con's over on ukclimbing:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=419779

It looks like it is going before the planners quite soon so if you are concerned about this now's the time.

Jack.

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Originally Posted by jackd

There is a planning application in to put a 1.2km long zip wire from near the summit of fleetwith pike to the quarry at honister. If you want to comment on the application the link is:

http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/index...ent-search.htm

The planning reference number to search for is: 7/2010/2092

There is a thread debating the pro's:confused: and con's over on ukclimbing:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=419779

It looks like it is going before the planners quite soon so if you are concerned about this now's the time.

Jack.

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If it goes through it will affect the Borrowdale Valley immensly

The pros are that it would be fun. It doesn't really offend me. Maybe there could be one in Llanberis from the top of the quarries. Like this bit of the Lakes, it's hardly an area of unspoilt beauty.

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Originally Posted by noel

The pros are that it would be fun. It doesn't really offend me. Maybe there could be one in Llanberis from the top of the quarries. Like this bit of the Lakes, it's hardly an area of unspoilt beauty.

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for me noel the cons would be the amount of traffic that would be heading through the valley to get to honister especially in summer time. Honister i fear will only be allowed to go so far by the Nat Trust and others.
The pros are that it will be extra jobs

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Originally Posted by noel

The pros are that it would be fun. It doesn't really offend me. Maybe there could be one in Llanberis from the top of the quarries. Like this bit of the Lakes, it's hardly an area of unspoilt beauty.

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I'm sure it would be fun, but i'd rather it wasn't built as it would alter the character of that part of the Lakes. I agree it's not unsploilt but that is not an argument for spoiling it further. We use the roads, contribute to erosion of paths, etc all of which alter the natrual beauty of the place, but i think this goes too far.

The debate on ukc makes for interesting reading, and made me realise what a grey area this is. I thought it worth posting on here so people are aware of whats happening and can comment on the application if they wish.

ta, jack

Thanks for posting jack. I saw the first page of posts on the UKC forum and as you say it makes interesting reading

I'm against the idea. If folk want to have 'fun' like that they can find it without that part of the National Park being spoilt further

I can understand objections on the basis of changing the nature of a place - and it's a very difficult thing to define. I agree it will increase traffic, but not more than extending an existing car park or opening a new cafe. I would guess with all the safety checks and getting things set up, it'll probably take at least 15 minutes to get someone loaded on and unloaded at the other end. That's much less extra traffic than for example, a pub increasing its opening hours to serve lunches.

big article in the Daily Telegraph today with big picture. apparantly the decision is being made by Cumbria council on 1st September

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Originally Posted by Man from Del Monte

big article in the Daily Telegraph today with big picture. apparantly the decision is being made by Cumbria council on 1st September

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Think you mean Lake District NPA not Cumbria CC MfDM:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...-District.html

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Originally Posted by Multiterrainer

Think you mean Lake District NPA not Cumbria CC MfDM:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...-District.html

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well done, you win a prize from the lucky bag

All I can say is that Fleetwith Pike is one of my favourite viewpoints, a truely lovely spot. The Lake District as we know is a bit of a playground, look at what's been done to Grizedale and Whinlatter for evidence. However, once you start getting up onto the high fells for mass organised activities I think a dangerous prescendent (sic?) is being established. I truely believe that the rough ground of the fell summits should remain the preserve of those prepared to make the effort on foot and not via a paid bus service from Honister Slate mine. The bloke down at Honister will always make the excuse that these fells have always suffered from human activity, however, never on the scale that is likely if he gets his wish over Fleetwith.

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Originally Posted by smoggy

I truely believe that the rough ground of the fell summits should remain the preserve of those prepared to make the effort on foot and not via a paid bus service from Honister Slate mine. .

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I've been thinking about this alot recently. I have a muscle disease which is slowly wekening my muscles to the point that in a few years I won't be able to walk very far at all, let alone up a fell. I like the idea of still being able to get to at least one top and zip down.

Very sorry to hear that Julian. Given your circumstances my viewpoint sounds a little selfish. Apologies. I guess the issue I'm raising is an objection to large numbers of people being deposited on the fell top at regular intervals throughout the day. The argument is a familiar one, look no further than the railway up to Snowdon. I fully accept that in both instances it allows people access to the mountains who may otherwise find it difficult. If it is to go ahead, it needs doing sensitively and I'm not convinced it will be.

It's one of those 'not in my backyard' things isn't it. Bit like windfarms. We see a need but don't want them near us.

In an ideal world I'd like to see less people flocking into the outdoor spaces generally as it spoils them. The more access is made easier by roads, proper paths, railways etc them more the nice places become crowded and less nice places to be.

However, that is a very selfish attitude that I have and I know it. I also appreciate that the reality is that places like the Lake District need tourism to survive.

It's a no win situation really.

This country is way to crowded though, even in the countryside.

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Originally Posted by smoggy

Very sorry to hear that Julian. Given your circumstances my viewpoint sounds a little selfish. Apologies.

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No need for apologies - it is a balancing act.

They are trying to put another planning application in and they want to call it.... Wait for it... The Zip Weir! in rememberance of the man himself. even in death he torments the beauty of the lakes.

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/201...zip-wire-plans

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

....even in death he torments the beauty of the lakes.

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I appreciate the issue behind the post but that comment is in poor taste Ian, the man only died a few weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

They are trying to put another planning application in and they want to call it.... Wait for it... The Zip Weir! in rememberance of the man himself. even in death he torments the beauty of the lakes.

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/201...zip-wire-plans

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IDP I can understand some thinking you are not being sensative when making this comment but lets face it from those people who love the lakes the out pouring of grief to the unfortunate accident suffered by Mr Wier on this forum was limited and with reason. My immediate thought was 'I hope this means an end to the ridiculous over commercialisation and gimmickery of the Honister area and Fleetwith. Alas this seems not to be the case. Unless we are able to express ourselves as we think here before we know it this and other similar projects will be popping up all over the place

to be honest the sheer chutzpah and grim reaper opportunism of re-applying dressed up as a tribute is in itself a worthy memorial to the man himself.

who is in bad taste here, the family for reapplying (not 4 weeks later!!) and calling it the Zip Wier or IDP for questioning the wisdom? I know what I think..

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Originally Posted by mudclawed

who is in bad taste here, the family for reapplying (not 4 weeks later!!) and calling it the Zip Wier or IDP for questioning the wisdom? I know what I think..

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I don't disagree with Ian's point, just the comment "even in death he torments the beauty of the lakes" which I thought was in poor taste. The original post would've been perfectly fine without that last addition. Doesn't really matter about the guy's politics, it's still a little disrespectful.

I suspect they've re-applied as something to try and make one of his dreams/aims come true and thus use it as a memorial. When you lose someone close many people scout around for things to occupy themselves to make it seem like they're doing something proactive. They probably don't see it as a bad thing like many of us on here do.

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Originally Posted by mudclawed

to be honest the sheer chutzpah and grim reaper opportunism of re-applying dressed up as a tribute is in itself a worthy memorial to the man himself.

who is in bad taste here, the family for reapplying (not 4 weeks later!!) and calling it the Zip Wier or IDP for questioning the wisdom? I know what I think..

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Actually, the application was submitted by Mark a few days before he died, but LDNPA decided to temporarily withdraw it when he died and have now made the application live again following Mark's funeral and discussion with the family and staff at the mine.

If you are going to slag off the dead and their families make sure you know what you are talking about!!!

It is also notable that all the comments on here are from people who live in Nottingham and Sheffield, so don't have to earn a living in the Lakes. It is hard to support a family tending daffodils!

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Originally Posted by No map, no compass

It is also notable that all the comments on here are from people who live in Nottingham and Sheffield, so don't have to earn a living in the Lakes. It is hard to support a family tending daffodils!

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Frankly, I think location of those posting is irrelevant. All views are equally important. I travel extensively for my work, I don't have the luxury of doing my job on my doorstep. I am not alone in this. I know that may sound harsh, but the lakes are an area of outstanding natural beauty. To my mind, they should be kept that way, and not spoilt at any cost for tourism just to make it easier to get local work.

Better close those car parks, campsites, fell races and pull up those tea shop signs then...

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Originally Posted by No map, no compass

Better close those car parks, campsites, fell races and pull up those tea shop signs then...

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That's rather silly. I suspect you know what I meant. It's a balancing act.

In any event, the main point of my post was to pick you up on trying to sideline the views of others, simply because they did not live 'locally'.

I had mixed feelings about the man himself, but he certainly believed in what he was doing and I feel for his family.

On a purely selfish level I don't want the zipwire to go ahead, mainly for the traffic and people that it will bring to my favourite corner of Cumbria rather than any specific visual intrusion (which I don't actually believe will be a problem). That said, I'm part of that same problem when I drive to Borrowdale to run or race, so who am I to judge what others do there?

I'd also like to return year on year to a Borrowdale that has a thriving community with jobs and prospects for local people, who are as much a part of Borrowdale as the landscape. It would be difficult to argue that the reopening of Honister Slate Mine and all that has come with it hasn't at least helped with this.

Whilst every one of us has at least a stake in the Lake District, and we're all entitled to our opinions I'd be very interested to hear some local views on the subject....

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Originally Posted by wjr

That's rather silly. I suspect you know what I meant. It's a balancing act.

In any event, the main point of my post was to pick you up on trying to sideline the views of others, simply because they did not live 'locally'.

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I know, but my point is equally valid. The idea that Honister looks like Disneyland is ridiculous. It's an active mine with a sign on the door saying it sells tea, cake and paperweights mainly. In comparison to the average ski resort which many of the objectors no doubt frequent quite happily it is insignificant. Both mining and ripping off tourists has been a Lakeland pastime for several hundred years.

@ no map, no compass

they weren't going to call it the Zip Weir before he died were they? And I live a lot nearer honnister than you.

I know we need jobs but more low paid tourist jobs might be a high price to pay for an ugly installation on top of a lovely hill. And yes Fleetwith is scarred by mines, so is coniston and Langdale etc but that's not an argument to repeat those mistakes.

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Originally Posted by mudclawed

@ no map, no compass

they weren't going to call it the Zip Weir before he died were they? And I live a lot nearer honnister than you.

I know we need jobs but more low paid tourist jobs might be a high price to pay for an ugly installation on top of a lovely hill. And yes Fleetwith is scarred by mines, so is coniston and Langdale etc but that's not an argument to repeat those mistakes.

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The only reason I posted on here is because I was staggered at your callousness. These are real people who have just very unexpectedly lost their partner/father, and you come along pretty much saying they have deliberately used the death of Mark to further their evil business plans to destroy the Lake District without any knowledge of the facts.

Anyone wanting to see what the application really involves might want to look here.

I noted with interest that The Times printed a very laudatory obituary.

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Originally Posted by No map, no compass

I know, but my point is equally valid ...

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Absolutely, and fair points too.

For anyone who is interested the first part of 'Tales from the National Parks' was aired last night on BBC4 and can be found on the iPlayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Lake_District/

It concerns the planning process around the zip wire down to Honister ..

an enjoyable and thought provoking watch even if the end has a sobering part

I went to Honister for the first ever time this year. There's certainly nothing that looks out of place there, the landscape is scarred by the mining - in fact you can see a great deal more scarring in Snowdonia as you climb Snowdon and look across.

They are not proposing a motocross race site or a landfill, just a zip wire.

I went up there and stayed at Glaramara with some of my athletes. As part of the trip we went on the Via Ferretta and I assume this zip wire would be an extension of that.

I wouldn't be concerned about it, I can't see it affecting things visually, I can't see it bringing a significant amount of extra traffic.

My main concern would be for the H&S and upkeep of it - you wouldn't want to come off part way down would you?

The national park turned down the application anyway - said so on the link to the planning application given earlier. Grounds for rejection were the expected ones of too much visual etc impact for too little gain.

True but the programme did a good job in my view in explaining both sides of the story - too little gain for whom?

I'd have thought the major consideration there must be the amount of traffic it might lead to. The main road in is a narrow one, through relatively quiet villages and it can be quite tortuous even now when there are a few cars on the road.

It was an interesting programme, but it certainly didn't make Mark Weir look too good. His confrontation with the Friends of the Lake District pair on the side of the hill was cringeworthy and showed him in a bad light, as did some of his comments towards Natural England.

As with most similar situations, I suspect there's more going on "beneath the surface" (no pun intended) than we know in terms of local politics. He seemed to be someone who either inspired or wound up people and, in doing that, you can make some powerful enemies.

I watched it last night and found it interesting, thought-provoking and sad. I couldn't help feeling sorry for Mark and his family and their employess, not just over the zip wire aspect but also the hefty fine for installing the via ferrata. It was a double whammy that appeared to result from black and white idealism rather than shades of grey compromise. The effect of what he did amounts to zero compared to the effect of past industrial activities like mining and quarrying.

I thought this was a very interesting and moving documentary that gave a really good insight to the drive and motivation of Mark and his family and the opposition they faced.

Really the working mine is an eyesore and creates unpleasant industrial noise, but this is contained within a small area. I don't think the proposal would have made it any worse; a zip wire would barely impact on this already scarred and rugged part of the landscape. It would provide an experience of a healthy and empowering activity that for many would be remembered for life, a gift that would far outweigh the scar on the ground.

The damage to the flora and fauna is entirely contained by the physical nature of the via ferrata; a small impact given the scale of the site and a low price to pay when considering the huge gain to the users of the facility. The users of the via ferrata could have been educated about the rare plants, which would add to the experience of many. There were no facts or figures given of species numbers or locations to support the argument against, and it seemed that no proposals were considered as possible offsets for the damage.

Mark may have lacked the skills for dealing with the authorities in a professional manner, but his vision and motives appear to be genuinely for the good. There was an error on his application; at the time of submission he probably didn't realise the significance of the wording on the form. A tower below the summit would have a much reduced impact but the general public and many of those that objected may well have done so believing the summit would be the site. As I said before; what a shame.

Just my humble opinion; please don't throw rocks at me! :o

regarding the via ferrata and the SSSI I guess that English Nature have to maintain the "height of the bar". If they let this one go then presumably there is a risk that every SSSI is at greater risk, developers would wonder why they couldn't build over the next one and the next one.

I thought a really interesting aspect was the insight into Mark Weir's nature - He seemed to revel in the taking of risk.
To me a couple of the scenes showed him grandstanding his aittude. - the sounding out and the sheep rescue.
A couple of other scenes had him "sneering" at the film makers for not being risk takers.
His announcement that he only nearly killed himself 4 times in 2010.
Ultimately and sadly it caught up with him.

I found it ironic that he was championing activities that whilst providing thrills would constitute no exposure to risk; the via ferrata and zip would be safety checked and protected to prevent any risk.
Maybe he wasn't so much about risk as adrenaline.

It was interesting to see the support he had and the employment side of the equation.

I wonder what the equation is for the local economy - a zip would attract some people to the area bringing money and jobs to honister but equally put others off from visiting, losing money and jobs nearby.

My favourite scene was the couple on the shore in Keswick
Laconic northern male(husband): "49th wedding aniversary tommorrow. We always spend it in the Lakes"
Film maker " And you do something romantic ?"
Laconic northern female (wife) "Nooo.... Not really"