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Has anyone used these on their BG attempts? I was wondering if they make any difference.
I'm trying it later this season and whilst I'm not too concerned about my fitness, my knees do suffer a bit.......though I'm sure everybody's do!
Any views would be welcome.
Cheers
Hi
I recently used poles on my successful round of the BG and thoroughly recommend them. Great for setting a steady pace on the uphills and can be used when your quads get tired later on the down hills. I handed mine to my pacers on all running sections, most downhills and on any rocky ascents/descents, didn't use them from Great End to Scafell. I used Leki poles, but I hear very good reports of pacer poles.
You can check out John Fleetwood's video of my BG on You Tube to see them in use.
Gary
Don't know about poles but I reckon a ski lift would be useful for coming down off Scafell.
I remember coming down from Robinson along High Snab Band towards Little Town with a single walking pole about 12 years ago. All of a sudden I went arse over tit for about 10 meters having got the pole all tangled up with my legs!? They may be great but you need a degree of coordination which I clearly lack...
Goose Fat, I take it your feet are better now if you are worried about your knee's :D
I thinking of having a pair in the support vehicle just in case. Won't use them until Wasdale and then only on ascents. I don't know about a ski lift down but if you could arrange for some skis and a band snow 20 ft wide to the valley I bet I could be down pretty sharpish!!
Ian
What other mechanical aids are acceptable?
Would a tin tray for a winter round be OK on the descents?:D
I reckon that the advances in footwear and clothing should be more than enough to make the challenge easier than when Bob Graham did it, and the use of additional aids does nothing to maintain the true essence of the challenge.
Trekking poles?? Whatever next? Motorised Zimmer frames? For heavens sakes, we are fell runners not RA acolytes!
It's not a proper BG if you don't do it wearing a pyjama jacket, plimsolls, a boiled egg in your pocket - and clockwise... oh and did Bob have a rope up Broad Stand?:D . Then you've got to be up at six in the morning and back at work.
Hi
There was some interresting posts about using poles in the UTMB thread, so I thought I would start a thread about them specifically to get everyones take on them.
I have always been a bit anti poles, very bigoted, but there are just too many people walking around St Ives streets with them!
A freind of mine who does alot of walking convinced me to have a go with some so I got a £13 pair from Tesco to see how I got on with them. In February I went up onto Dartmoor and found I got on with them quite well and felt even better about being able to leave the front pole of my Tarptent Squall behind and used the trekking pole instead.
On the basis of this successful outing I bought a pair of TiGoat AGPs: http://www.titaniumgoat.com/poles.html (The lowers are now carbon too) I particularly liked the look of these as you can join the two poles together without carrying anythin extra to make a longer tent pole, so I can use them with my Mountain Hardwear Kiva).
I took them for a walk on the coast path, but found that the places I really wanted to use them the path was too narrow and I ended up carrying them much of the way!
I then used them again on Dartmoor when it was really horrible, mist and heavy horrizontal rain. I made a navigational error I'm convinced I would not have made had I been carrying my map and compass and not poles! This is my biggest issue with poles, how do you navigated effectively? Sure you can stop and get your map and compass out, but that is going to slow you down. I tend to navigate on the move, looking at the map fairly frequently, but not actually stopping.
Does anyone else have any thoughts about the use of ploes?
James
101 uses for a dead ploe?
I understand they're good for exercising the upper body, a bit like lang-lauf skiing, but, God, I hate them. Clicky-clacky, trippy-uppy, spendy-money gee-gaws.
Are any other East European nationals as effective?
Czechs are if made payable to 'm....... ..........':DQuote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
Actually I'm a single pole user just for taking pressure off knees for steep rocky descents - when walking not running that is. Cannot use a pair of em trekking stylee tho.
I'm sure they are useful and i have no objections to there use in races, however i won't be adding them to my kit list any time soon.
I'm a bit anti poles, as a fan of minimalist running I find them hard to place in this philosiphy. I also suspect that a 13 quid pair does the same thing as a 70 quid pair.
I think that they are just as much a mental aid as a physical aid.
I tried some once, couldn't get on with them. One wasn't too bad for steep descents, but two kept threatening to trip me up, and stopped me from using my hands for anything else whilst on the move - eating, drinking, mapreading to name but three. also, I felt a bit of a tw@, to be honest, and didn't get any real benefit from them.
But others swear by them, so it's whatever works for the individual, I suppose!
I use my poles throughout every walk, whatever the terrain, because I think they help my dodgy knees and I am certain they help my dodgy balance. I agree they can be unuseable on narrow paths. Sometimes I find I can use one pole while carrying the other. However, part of the problem is that the baskets catch in vegetation and also in loose stones, and I recently walked with someone who had removed the baskets from his poles, making them much easier to use. Now I want to remove mine, but Leki baskets seem very firmly fixed. Suggstions?Quote:
Originally Posted by jhb0510
For map reading when walking, I use a map case, and to stop it swinging around I have attached 2 small curtain rings to my waist belt and clip the bottom of the map case to them with mini karabiniers. Yes, the poles do slow down other procedures such as blowing my nose, but the best way is to make sure you buy the poles with ski pole type loops and keep your hands through them. Then the loops can remain on the wrists while the hands are busy.
Behind a runner with a pair in a race once - I wouldn't have been behind him if I could have got past but his poles were in the way! My wife uses a pair for walking and finds them a big help on steep or loose ground going up or down but I hope they dont catch on for use during races.
I've tried poles a number of times and I can't say they help me at all, however I know some people swear by them and I can see they definitely coming down steep ascent (when walking that is). They're a lot more popular over in Europe, I'll never forget going up Petit Mont Blanc a few years ago and being completely amazed at the sheer amount of stud marks (from poles) over the summit and on our path down.
Probably more useful in mountain areas than down here on flat and boggy Dartmoor. Never used them myself, but I can see how they would be handy for walkers for steep descents/river crossings. They're all the rage down here at the moment - another bit of kit to add to all the other unneccessary clobber you see folk lugging around. Even worse in the winter!
[QUOTE=Alexandra;362218] Now I want to remove mine, but Leki baskets seem very firmly fixed. Suggstions?[QUOTE]
Stanley Knife and concentration!
As for using poles, I never have and can't really see the point especially for running. Although I did hear they allegedly take up to 30% of the pressure off the knees when walking.
Nearly got taken out on Saturday by some numpty who decided to stow his poles horizontally across his pack!
We used to take them off by applying alittle bit of soapy water then steaming.Hold the lower part of the shaft(the bit that the basket is attached to)Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy
sometimes they came off easy. if still not coming off wrap a dish cloth around shaft to prevent damage, trap in a loose vice or a door way with door shut. A quick tug used to get them off. Good luck.
I have a set that I carry to hand out to walkers in my groups who are struggleign, I use them in the big mountains to steady myself with a big pack and preserve the knees(I thought it was 40%) but would NEVER use them in a race.
They aren't allowed in UK races are they? I know Scottish Athletics deemed them 'mechanical aids', hence why they are banned for the WHW.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
I think they have a time and a place. But you pay for what you get. Its worth paying more..
I've seen them just the once in one of the Lakeland classics this summer. They do tend to obstruct other runners on narrow paths.
Even in some French mountain races you are not allowed to use them, and the French do love a pair of batons.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
The main usefulness of poles appears to be for reducing strain on knees, especially on steep descents. However, in my experience, the strain on your knees is mostly caused by having your ankles strapped in huge great boots. I used to have knee problems when walking (before I started running) and found they vanished when running in trainers (and reappeared whenever I wore boots). As soon as I dumped walking boots for trainers, all my knee problems vanished. I'll even carry a huge rucksack with trainers now (carrying my three year old) and have no problems with knees or ankles. I don't know how much of the problem with boots is their inflexible soles, how much their shear weight, but I think it's probably the restricted movement of your ankles.
That's an interesting point actually, I'd never thought of it before. I have a couple of pairs of Scarpa boots that I hill walk in and have always been of the belief that my ankles need that support when carrying the extra load (and when not moving as swiftly as when running), but having said that I've never really tried without boots. I've got a pair of Scarpa Mantas (B2 boots) and love the nice stiff sole they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
However, I don't really have problems with my knees when walking so never really thought twice about it - I'll have to give trainers a go.
I agree that boots cause more problems than they resolve. It seems to me that their famed ankle support is a myth. A boot that was close-fitting enough to provide support would surely be agonising to wear for long. If someone really needs ankle support, I think some kind of puttee is a better bet, though of course strong muscles are always the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
For me, the benefit of poles when walking is that they prevent wobble, which upsets my knees. Long term, I need to develop much stronger muscles, but short term it is hard to do this without the exercises intended to strengthen actually causing the discomfort they are meant to prevent.
I haven't worn proper boots for years, even when carrying a huge heavy Bergen, trainers seem fine. I do sometimes appreciate the protection my NHS orthotics give me from stones underfoot. However, if anyone is happy walking in boots, why should they change? One advantage of wearing boots: you will not be upbraided by boots enthusiasts who think it immoral to court disaster by wearing trainers in the mountains.
Years ago I changed my work boots for a calf high pair and within a few weeks of wearing them my descending ability deteriorated significantly - the extra support had weakened the muscles around my ankles and lower legs. So I think boots provide support at the expense of weakening the natural structures that were intended to provide that support on their own, especially when not load carrying (or for lightly laden runners).
Back on the original thread I found an earlier thread on the same subject where the person who I mentioned being behind in a race had posted to explain why he was using them - his conclusion seemed to be that they were not worth using for our type of running.
I come to the boot question from a different angle.
If you have well developed and toughened joints and ligaments from years of running, then you'll be fine with shoes. But from an Army, 'carrying very heavy weights over long distances when you're really tired' point of view, you'll want decent and strong boots every time. Otherwise you'll be left on the hills with a sprained ankle or a broken leg. Getting used to such boots also takes many years, so if you don't need to, then I agree, you don't have to.
I forgot to add 'at night and in foul weather'. I like being in the hills in a pair of fell shoes, but they really are fair weather gear for when you know you'll be tucked up in a warm bed in the next 36 hours or so.
You're probably right there, I come from a hill walking background and being in the hills without boots still seems a little strange to me - I feel very comfortable in a decent pair of boots, especially for long walks where I'm out for 10 hours or more I feel they give me the rigidity and support I need - plus they're nice and snug in the cold! Can't say they do any favours for how fast I walk but when walking I'm not really bothered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotherton Lad
I think maybe it's just what you're used to, I ain't got very strong ankles so boots are good for me!
[QUOTE=superflyguy;362364][QUOTE=Alexandra;362218] Now I want to remove mine, but Leki baskets seem very firmly fixed. Suggstions?[QUOTE]
Stanley Knife and concentration!
/QUOTE]
No, surely Leki sell different types of basket to be used in varying conditions eg snow - they must pull/screw off somehow.
[QUOTE=Brotherton Lad;362776] from an Army, 'carrying very heavy weights over long distances when you're really tired' point of view, you'll want decent and strong boots every time. Otherwise you'll be left on the hills with a sprained ankle or a broken leg.
Does the army really leave people on the hills with broken legs? No wonder we haven't won many wars lately, and have trouble recruiting enough soldiers.
What about waterproof socks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotherton Lad
[QUOTE=Alexandra;362881]Only if we don't like them. Recruiting is going very well at the moment, actually. Goretex socks are issued at the taxpayers' expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotherton Lad
[QUOTE=Brotherton Lad;362898]I should hope so. we wouldn't want them getting cold wet feet while they are being shot at...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
Indeed, didn't have 'em in my day though. Trench foot was all the rage.
Just brewed up another 10 gallons btw.
As for losing wars, Alexandra, it's true the Crimea and the Boer War weren't that great, but we've won all the others since. It's not the war fighting that's been iffy (the Iraqi Army in particular just folded), it's the nation-building phase afterwards that wasn't prepared for by the politicians that sent the Forces in.
There's an interesting debate amongst military personnel here on Afghanistan:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/current-affai...ost-cause.html
Whatever you do, though, don't go in the NAAFI.
I have nice warm feet when wearing trainers all day in the wet and the snow - neoprene socks :-)
Can anyone advise on which ultra light-weight trekking poles to buy? I remember this has been discussed before, with mention of Mountain King and at least one other brand, but I can't find the thread. I like the idea of the sort that fold up rather than telescope, but I don't want anything that comes apart in action.