Achilles problems

Damn left achilles has flared up. In truth this has been creeping up on me for a while now, but it is not showing the same symptoms as 'Classic' tendonitis. This time it appears to be sore at the base of the tendon where it connects to the heel, the tendon is not at all sore to the touch (not like the last time where any pressure was really sore).

The interesting thing about this is that it seems to be particularly intolerant of my fell shoes - just wearing them make the left tendon/back of heel area sore. So much so that even a walk in the woods (in fell shoes) reduced me to a limping, hobbling wreck all of which improved significantly when the shoes were removed and replaced with 'standard' footwear.

It is all the more annoying as these shoes were extremely comfortable for the first few runs. However I do not appear to be alone in this - one of our fellrunning posse suffers a similar affliction (same shoes, same sore heel). We did some digging around on the web and reckon that the condition may have been caused by brusing around the tendon area (caused by shoes), rather than a strain on the tendon itself.

Anyone else suffered anything remotely similar? Would like to try to avoid this problem in the future if I change my shoes for a different make.

I've had a similar problem, on and off, for a few years. Like you, my achilles trouble seemed to be made worse by fell shoes, particularly those with slightly higher. stiffer backs (Walshes and RX Terrains seemed paricularly troublesome, which was annoying, as the RX Terrains were otherwise one of the best fitting shoes for me). I tried a lot of different shoes to resolve the problem, without success - I thought Inov-8s might help because they have such a low back, but they don't really fit my feet. When changing shoes didn't help, I tried other things and I've largely got rid of the problem now by through a combination of physio, a good rehab programme and orthotics in my road shoes (but not my fell shoes).

I now think, in my case, it wasn't the fell shoes that were causing the problem, but other biomechanical issues. However, I do think that, if you've got an achilles problem, fell shoes can really irritate it - much more so than road shoes. This is particularly the case if you use shoes with a slightly higher, stiffer back, which tend to rub the achilles, especially on descents when your foot naturally flexes forward and pulls the back of the shoe into the tendon. This is made worse because fell shoes tend to fit tightly anyway. Road shoes aren't as bad because they have a loser fit, so the heel tends to slide a bit, rather than bite into the tendon, and you rarely do steep unstable descents in them.

Having sorted the problem, I now find I can use RX Terrains largely without difficulty, although I prefer Gladiators, which have a similar fit, but a softer heel tab and work better on the rare occasions my tendon still flares up.

My Inov8 mudrocs cause me problems with my achilles. I ve taken to plastering and then taping my lower achilles, and then wearing two pairs of socks to limit damage.....also stops me from losing lumps fo skin!

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Originally Posted by BillyNoMates

Anyone else suffered anything remotely similar? Would like to try to avoid this problem in the future if I change my shoes for a different make.

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Hi BNM - I had EXACTLY the same symtoms -
Ran 17miles with new shoes, absolutley fine. Next day wore them for a walk and was hobbling badly at the end. I kept the shoes for a month, wearing them around the house to try and 'bed them in' - Result? EVERYTIME I wore the shoes the pain would return. I could however continue running in my other shoes during this time. Solution? Bin the shoes.

This is really familiar. I've had a similar pain for nearly 12 months on and off. The thing was I wasn't doing much running when it appeared - I've recently put it down to some Merrel walking shoes. There seemed to be a connection between wearing these and the onset of pain so I'm avoiding them for the present.
Anyway I did a bit of digging on the net and came across a condition called Retrocalcaneal Bursitis. The key thing was the fact that the pain for RB was lower, on the heel bone itself rather than the achilles tendon itself which has been pain free.
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cy...esbursitis.htm

It seems to have responded to rest, ice & ibuprofen.

This has happened to me only in this last week:mad:

I did a fair bit of mileage and all seemed ok went for a run in my new mudclaw 330's on wednesday before last - got out of bed thursday morning and was hobbling round with a really sore heel - same place mentioned in initial post. Not sore to touch but also keep getting shooting pains up the back of the heel from time to time.

Spent most of last week cross training (swimming/spinning) really reduced the mileage and rested this weekend.

Just back from a short run in my mudrocs and whilst running I didn't even feel a niggle but now there is a very slight dull throbbing in the area:(

Will try the mudclaws again in a couple of days and just hope they need bedding in otherwise it's £60 down the swanny!!:mad:

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Originally Posted by emmilou

Just back from a short run in my mudrocs and whilst running I didn't even feel a niggle but now there is a very slight dull throbbing in the area:(

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This was one of the things I experienced. There may have been a slight pain when setting off on a run but the activity eased the pain which inevitably returned later, usually after a short period of immobility.

Always had this problem with fell shoes - every Inov8 I've tried, the old felldancers, RX terrains and Walshes. Went to Nike Storm Pegasus for a while but the grip was inadequate, finally along came the Mizuno Wave Harrier and I've found a shoe suitable for fell running that doesnt cause me achilles problems. The toebox is a little baggy for my liking but according to Mizuno that is being rectified.

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Originally Posted by Bisto

Always had this problem with fell shoes - every Inov8 I've tried, the old felldancers, RX terrains and Walshes. Went to Nike Storm Pegasus for a while but the grip was inadequate, finally along came the Mizuno Wave Harrier and I've found a shoe suitable for fell running that doesnt cause me achilles problems. The toebox is a little baggy for my liking but according to Mizuno that is being rectified.

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Does that mean we'll be seeing more of you on the fells this year Bisto??

You know I don't do fell racing but I will be doing more training on the fells for sure.

Sounds like there are quite a few people out there having/had similar experiences with fellshoes exasterbating problems around the achilles/heel area.

The link provided by Stan seems to describe my symptoms almost exactly well. I am begining to form the opinion that recent training has caused the 'retrocalcaneal bursa' to swell and this swolen condition is irritated further by the fellshoes which provide a much tighter grip around the heel area. The end result is quite painful if the shoes are worn for sometime.

Although I tried running yesterday (in road shoes), I only managed 400m before I decided that things weren't quite right. However my particular ailment seems to be responding well to ibuprofen gel and I reckon that I will be OK to try again tomorrow.

I also think I will be able to wear my fellshoes again if the bursitis has completely cleared, but in the mean time I am sticking to roadies. I may invest in a pair of off-roaders that have been derived from a road running background as a back up pair - those Mizunos look promising.

I've had this - I had a sore bump on my heel that got so bad that even walking with my walshes on was very painful. I bought myself a new pair of trail running shoes and switched from Walshes to Gladiators and it went away.

All my feet problems have been fixed by changing shoes!

One problem can be linked to tight achilles tendons. If you tend to run in "normal trainers" they have a bit of a heel where as fell shoes are very flat in general. This can lead to over stretching your achilles and giving you problems which you describe.

It can also exacerbate other foot problems like plantar faciitis and pereneol tendon problems the latter of which I have. One way to avoid this is plenty of calf stretching. There are of coarse other areas but this is another one to be given consideration.

Two days of rest and half a tube of ibuprofen gel and things have improved substantially. I even endured a punishing intervals session yesterday lunchtime with no ill-effects (apart from feeling knackered, of course).

The replies to this thread have been quite helpful and have influenced the approach I took to recovery.

One thing that I have learned is that the discomfort due to achilles bursitis can occur independently of achilles tendonitis. In particular the bursitis can be dramatically affected by simply wearing certain styles of footware. In my case it appears that just wearing the fellshoes with their slight grip around the back of the heel appears to be the main cause of the discomfort.

In the future I think I will observe the following precautions to minimise the liklihood of any reoccurance:

1) Avoid wearing fellshoes for non-fell activities (ie walking).
2) Invest in a pair of 'trail' shoes for the more generic off-road activities and training.
3) Reserve fellshoes for the really rough terrain where the slight movement in trail shoes otherwise would cause blisters etc.
4) Don't wear shoes that feel uncomfortable - even if they were OK the day before!

I wouldn't like to think that the problem is related to fell shoes per se - I've worn them for years for running, cycling, walking, going to the pub in etc etc with no probs. Like I said earlier my problem (I think) was with some walking shoes.
So it's avoiding the shoes that create the problem that's the key.
A lot of the threads I read seemed to suggest that the condition was brought about by the wearing of high heeled shoes. :o

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Originally Posted by Stan

I wouldn't like to think that the problem is related to fell shoes per se - I've worn them for years for running, cycling, walking, going to the pub in etc etc with no probs. Like I said earlier my problem (I think) was with some walking shoes.
So it's avoiding the shoes that create the problem that's the key.
A lot of the threads I read seemed to suggest that the condition was brought about by the wearing of high heeled shoes. :o

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You are absolutely correct, of course. My reference to fellshoes was really specific to the shoes I have been wearing. I deliberately avoided mentioning the make of fellshoe because I didn't want the thread to regress into 'that type of shoe is rubbish' discussion.

I agree that avoiding the wrong shoes is key - but it seems that finding the right shoes inevitably involves some trial and error.

I've had this on my left ankle on and off for a while now, and blame it more on 'overdoing it' than the fell shoes. But once it's present, the fell shoes exacerbate it more, and even after a few days off running, it's still sore. My feeling is that VERY gentle stretching and minimal running on uneven ground hastens the repair. After it's fixed the fell shoes seem fine ... until I overdo it again!

I've also had a lot of success with the suggestion off the ultrunr site where it was suggested:-

"stand on a step or ledge on the balls of your feet. Rise up on your GOOD leg, transfer your weight to the AFFECTED leg with ankle fully flexed downward (plantar flexion), and descend all the way down (to maximum dorsiflexion). Repeat 15 times (one set), and do 3 such sets twice a day. Also do these sets beginning with the knee of the affected leg partially bent, rather than extended (straight); this works the soleus muscle. Later on you can add weight, in the form of a backpack or weight machine on the shoulders, to increase the strengthening effect."

Now that I seem to be better, I have been left with a bit of dilemma.....

I am planning a run in the hills on Tuesday Night, do I wear roadshoes or fellshoes?

If I follow my own self-imposed advise I should wear roadshoes, but since everything seems to be working well I can't help thinking that I must have imagined the whole thing episode and I should trust the fell shoes a go on their home ground.

Hi I'm new to the FRA Forums and just starting out into Fell running - I did a few races last year but this year want to start getting more into fell

Anyhow.. years ago when I first started raod running I had a problem with my achillies.. same as your all having/had. I ended up having to stop running and go to physio.. the streches I got were the same as described a couple of posts ago and work brillaintly

I've had no problems since - untill a 18th party over xmas - at my age I ought to know better but I went and did the pogo anyhow for old times sake.. guess what - achillies set right off

Been hurting on and off ever since.. I'm trying to ignore it but this thread's made me realise that sensible me needs to be streching morning and night and mabey resting it a bit

Do you all keep training anyway?
I'm a sod for that - but would be interested to know if anyone else would be doing the same

Just a note really to say that I've got back into regular Achillies stretch and did Tiger Torr yesterday - achillies suddenly on the mend??!!

Fells it is then!

I couldn't agree more - those stretches really do improve the situation. It works for me every time, and provided I'm sensible getting back into the Fells, the recovery stays. Get too carried away and the fells exacerbate it again. Have you tried doing them with a weighted backpack to build some strength too?

No I havent - but that's an idea though

I've had no problems with my achillies for about 5years since the last big blow up - but this is niggly - as of Saturday though I am doing the strecthes 2-3 times a day and as I said it's deffo better after yesterdays run

I do more road than fell at the minute so I think the change of shoe and terriane definaly helped

I'm very pleased anyhow!

Below is a link to a long, long article about the achilles but at the very end are described some effective(for me and a couple of others I know) and simple exercises to help strengthen the achilles and calf.

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0125b.htm

I do the "Balance and Eccentric Reach with Toes", the most.

That's brilliant - thankyou

It's still jippy but definatley getting better with the one strech I know so I'm sure that this is going to give me some more tricks

Thanks

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Originally Posted by jmacewan

I do the "Balance and Eccentric Reach with Toes", the most.

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and that was just to get another bottle of beer out of the fridge...:eek: :eek:

And the beer is the final option when nothing else works?:D

Achille op last 7days ago. Went to the GP to get the cast removed today - following instructions from the surgeon (weight bearing in a week time, but could have started to move it gently now).
To cut a long story short, the GP refused to removed the cast because he feared 1 week was short and I could have sued him. Told me go to the hospital in a week time.

I'm angry like hell

:mad:

Am I being foolish if I run tomorrow in the Liver Hill race?

Hurt my achilles on the track 2.5 weeks ago and have mostly rested it since then. At first I felt like I was overcompensating with my other leg but did 5 miles yesterday and it didn't feel too bad - bit sore today though.
Cycling does not seem to aggravate it and it's not sore to touch...if it is tendonitis am I risking making it worse?

2 months after my Achille operation I am still not ready to run.

To put it simply: if it gets painful after you finished running, you should not have run.

don't do it Heather, it aint worth it (I should know as I didn't follow my own advice and I'm a physio). End result was unable to run for 3 months :o

It didn't hurt after I ran - it's just a bit sore the day after. Am I being stubborn?

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Originally Posted by Heather

It didn't hurt after I ran - it's just a bit sore the day after. Am I being stubborn?

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The desire to run easily makes one says "it does not hurt" when in fact it does.
Weather it's "a bit sore" or "it hurts" only you can say. If it is even just a little painful after running it simply means it would have been better not to run.

So is that a general rule with achilles. Only run when pain free.

Don't run if it hurts.
There was a good article by Denise Park on this in last autumn's issue of the Fellrunner.

I suffered repeated achilles tendinitus for over 6 months because after a short break I tried to run through it. Wished I had rested properly to start with.

Main problem was the following morning getting out of bed and then getting out of the car after driving to work.

Did you run, Heather?

No! I was good...

Although I did get my number and warm up. I then decided against it! Thanks for your advice...what do you reckon to just taking it steady on the fells? I've entered the Rossendale triathlon again so I suppose I've got cycling and swimming (haven't swam for a year) to concentrate on.

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Originally Posted by Heather

what do you reckon to just taking it steady on the fells?

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Generally, uphill running is worse than flat running for the Achille Tendon. It's just an obvious consequence of the mechanics involved.

If it hurts rest. If good, run a little. If still good, next day a bit more. And so forth.

Good luck.

Do the triathlon, but just don't get off the bike!