who uses them ? does anyone use them ? have they made a big difference to anyone that over pronates. Was thinking of sticking some in T fell shoes.
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who uses them ? does anyone use them ? have they made a big difference to anyone that over pronates. Was thinking of sticking some in T fell shoes.
I wouldn't bother, not in fell shoes. I wear them in my road shoes, and they've helped with my achilles trouble, but I think they're a waste of time in fell shoes. I did try, but struggled to find a pair of shoes that would take them - my orthotics are quite broad. i did manage to get them to fit in RX Terrains, but even then I found they had a tendency to role about inside the shoe on rough ground, making my feet less, rather than more, stable.
In the end I talked to a couple of podiatrist about it, both of whom said not to bother. The logic is that orthotics are designed to correct problems in your normal gait cyle, and need a stable platform to work properly. That's fine on road, but on the hills your feet are placed into all kinds of odd positions by the terrain, so your normal gait cylce is disrupted, For the same reason, fell shoes don't create a stable platform for the orthotics to work on.
I stopped using them off road a couple of years ago, with no noticeable effect. As I said, I still use them in my road shoes and think they help.
i was told the same fell shoes and orthotics don't mix.
also does anyone know where i can get a set made up and some contact details my last set arn't very good and i can no longer get hold of the poditrist who did them?
:)
Thats more or less what i thought my assic 2210 handle my pronation on the road fine. Think my tendonitis was due to a bad fall not my shoes.
cheers for that, i know people that have paid upto 160 puid for them
Have you checked the fra magazine they have a few ads in there for physios not sure about paediatrists though
they can set you back a lot more than 160 try 500.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobbydale
bloody Nora thats 8 pairs of fell shoes, for a bit of foam
I can heartily recommend Andrew Stanley at the Rebound Clinic in Settle. 01729 825900. They have a website so if you 'Google' the clinic you could take a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin
You know the costs from the outset as a 'no more than'. I paid £ 250.00 for mine, which included full gait assesment, recording and analysis on DVD, manufacture of while you wait temporary orthotics, consultations for any concerns that I had with the temporary ones and any adjustments, casting and manufacture of the 'proper' orthotics and consultations afterwards 'cos I'm a big worrying wuss.
My calves had been tearing from time to time (12 times in two and a half years) caused by over-pronation, that's now stopped.
I have very bad feet! Wear superfeet off the shelf orthotics in Inov8 fell and trail shoes - couldn't manage without.
Normally I've just got some new custom orthotics from the podiatrist at Rochdale Infirmary having reached her via a podiatric surgeon. She said that they cost the NHS £90 per pair and that doesn't include her costs etc.
I think that the comments about fell are generally correct, but most races have some path, trail that is reasonably flat and where orthotics will help.
A key problem i have found with wearing orthotics offroad is stability as mine are quite severe and I have difficulty on uneven ground with my feet slipping sideways etc.
Since I race on the XC and flat I have a less severe pair for use in spikes but I don't want to risk using these for longer distances so I have to put up with it.
Overall I think they have been beneficial on the roads to me since the injuries I had before them have not re-occured but they aren't appropriate all the time. That is something that I just have to live with.
I've worn othotics for the past 5 years, and to be honest, i couldn't cope without them. I have an ordinatry pair for road running, and a lighter, less bulk pair for my spikes.
Karent duff, who visits once a month in sale is very good. her othotics are very flexible and give support at the same time.
me missus and me both have orthotics. mine are off the shelf-supplied-by-the-pod. missus's feet were cast and he made them on the spot. mine were 35 quid, missus's were 180 inc consultation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin
Try russell at clayton nr bradford, great chap, he's the pod to bfd footie team. phone no under podiatrists in yellow pages.
i couldn't walk without pain, never mind run! orthotics are worth every penny. if you have any foot pain, SEE SOMEONE! i p*ssed about 2 years before seeing rus, and within weeks the pain began to lessen, 18 months on i have forgotten it (i you know what i mean)
Went to a sports injury clinic run by the local college last week and the Guy noticed I had flat feet and recommneded that I use a pair of Orthotics. He suggested I purchase from physio med. I failed to ask and have been wondering since - should I look for a pair of custom made ones specifically for my feet (ie visit a foot specialist) rather than purchase of the shelf ?
This may sound silly but would I need to purchase new shoes once I have purchased the Orthotics - my 10.5 Inov8's squeeze my toes as it is.
Hi Manhar
I'm not a podiatrist and I can't see your feet(probably a good thing). However you should go to a specialist as you might pick up the wrong support which can do more damage than good. One thing I can say is you might find you have more room for your toes as the footbed will stop your feet spreading out. Bear in mind that fell shoes are low profile for stability. if you build the heel up you would compromise that area of your boots.
There must be lots of runners out there more qualified than me so lets help Manhar out
Ian
I initially bought some off the shelf which helped but didn't get to the root of the problem. In the end I went to a specialist and tomorrow night will pick up my custom made orthotics.
Just a shame I knackered my leg on last Sunday's outing and can't run at the moment s won't be able to try them out. :(
As for buying new shoes - possibly. I need to replace mine as they are falling apart but was advised to wait until I had my orthotics as the shoe size may need to be different. It was suggested maybe going down a size but I fail to see how when like you my feet are nice and snug at the moment in the current size.
Manhar, I would recommend Salford University Podiatry Department.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhar
You wouldn't necessarily need new shoes as the orthotics are not normally full foot.
Swoop, Did you try their gate analysis and assessment of sports injuries?Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salford University Podiatry Dept.
Get some custom made ones hopefully it will correct the foot.
Also note that "flat feet" aren't always a problem that need to be corrected by orthotics. It can be a whole host of problems and a decent biomechanist or a decent physio or a decent podiatrist should be able to look at whats causing your flat footedness.
Cheers Guys
Just phoned Salford Uni but they've broken up for Easter, then it is Exam time followed by Graduation - which means they won't be able to see me until September - bugger.
Sorry about that! If you still have the problem in September get back to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhar
I had the gait analysis and had some orthotics made. Stopped wearing them after a few months and have had no trouble since. Mind you I also stopped wearing Walshes which were causing the problem in the first place (too narrow underneath for me).
Manhar, I know you said you were at a sports injury clinic but did the therapist think your 'flat feet' were associated with your injury, or just the fact you have flat feet. I work with children which is quite different from adults but I would not treat asymptomatic flat feet i.e. not causing any problems (as I said, this is the general approach for children, but not wholly sure about adults).
onwards and upwards
Gaz
Gaz
its the general approach for adults too
cheers d2, thought it might have been but didn't want any adult colleagues shouting me down:D
Do you have any injury problems associated with flat feet? If not then leave well alone. Orthotics are a life sentence (and at well over £100 every year or two a bloody expensive one in my case).
And certainly don't risk an off the shelf pair if you think you do need some.
(edit - I'd also echo the comment above about off road stability and orthotics - they make it extremely "interesting" when things get uneven!)
Quite agree. If you aren't experiencing any problem then why bother? If it ain't broke....Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Fairy
I went to the sports clinic with what I thought was a hip problem but it transpires that I had tight quad muscles - funnily enough they don't seem too bad this week. On reflection I'm not sure if being flat footed is the cause of tightness further up the legs, it's just that they noticed I had flat feet.
Are the 2 related ? Don't get me wrong I only start to feel a tightness after about 2.5 hrs of running so that may be down to not being as fit as I once was - perhaps I should quit these long races now.;)
ManharQuote:
Originally Posted by Manhar
if you are flat footed or you pronate then this can cause knee-hips or back problems but not always, this is why you need to have your gait checked.
Here's someone who wore orthotics for 5 years, stopped and now has been told to wear them again. Firstly, if you have flat feet but aren't getting injured don't do anything. Secondly if you are and the physio says its your gait see a proper podiatrist who will analyse your gait and if necessary make custom fitted orthotics. Thirdly orthotics are close to useless for fell running...why...because the constantly changing camber and steep uphill and downhill means you rarely land on your heel which is how orthotics are designed to work and you aren't repeating the same foot strike over and over resulting in 'over use' injuries.
I lived for 3 years in Edale and 90% of my running was fell running so I stopped wearing them apart from when I ran on the road. I went 3 years with just a couple of injuries. Now I'm down south my off road running is much less steep so I'm repeating the same foot strike over and over again and I have got calf problems. Saw the women who runs the EIS physio clinic at Bisham Abbey and as soon as she looked at my stance she spotted the problem and has advised me to run in orthotics again.
Manhar I'm a serious user of orthotics rather than being qualified. In fell shoes I use green superfeet which are full length and great in inov8s in place of their own footbed - not too built up.
If you are suffering problems that might help until you get to see an expert. I've got prescription orthotics but don't wear them in my fell shoes, the podiatrist knows what I am doing.
Don't know about Salford but Huddersfield Uni require a GP referral.
[QUOTE=wycoller;23272]Manhar I'm a serious user of orthotics rather than being qualified. In fell shoes I use green superfeet which are full length and great in inov8s in place of their own footbed - not too built up.
If you are suffering problems that might help until you get to see an expert. I've got prescription orthotics but don't wear them in my fell shoes, the podiatrist knows what I am doing.
QUOTE]
I used to be stockist of super feet and they are very good but...
1) Consult an expert first
2) If you do go for superfeet make sure you are measured for the correct size NOT the size of your foot. It is important thar the arch support is in the correct area.
3) If volume is an issue look at Blue superfeet as they are lower profile.
I have a stable foot with a high instep and I use super feet in my walking boots.
I would want really quiet ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Manhar,
I personally would be loath to go down the orthotics route just yet. They are a quick fix (and its very frustrating to go to a physio and be told to do weeks of boring exercises) but like I said above, orthotics are something that you may end up needing for the rest of your life and may lead to further problems. If this is the first problem you are having (and it only crops up after running for a long time) there could be a whole range of problems that could be causing it (fitness for one!) I'd advise that you make sure you exhaust every other line of enquiry first before looking at orthotics seriously.
Cheers folks
I'll hold fire on going down the Orthotics route. Like I've said it's only a problem on long runs so the issue may be something else.
Manhar, track fairy is righ! don't get them unless you really do need them.
reason
1. can cost up to £500 a year!
2. can take months to get used to them.
3. can cause more problems as the rest of your body adjusts to them.
4. no use for running on the fells with, your ankles twist that much and you
feet are hardly flat when running.
5. you wouldn't need to alter your shoes to wear them.
and
i have had more injurys with them, than without them.
Some people say othotics are right thing, others will disagree. Basicially, if you have an inefficient style, got leg lenght difference or become injured very easly, then orthotics are the thing for you. Otherwise, don't bother. I've worn othotics for five years and never had any injury problems. Recently, i decided to get a new pair (old ones wore out) from a new podistrist. she issues me a pair which weren't correct. i've had to go back twice now to get them corrected, which is becomng very frustrating- but when you've paid £170- you want to make sure they're correct.
For what it's worth, after a lifetime injury free, I developed a serious case of plantar fasciitis about six months ago (largely due to running in worn out shoes that I couldn't afford to replace. There's a salutary lesson there, to be sure.) For the first couple of weeks, I was really in considerable pain and, particularly first thing in the morning, more or less unable to move my foot/heel/ankle freely at all. The GP was little help, and waiting heaven-knows-how-long for a referral to do something about it wasn't, given the pain, really an option. The cost of a private podiatrist plus custom orthotics...well, it wasn't going to happen. So I'm afraid I went down the off-the-shelf at Boots route.
I have to say, the improvement was vast and immediate. The bulk of the pain cleared up within 24-48 hours and while even now, around 6 months later, things are still not back to 100%, they are close enough (maybe 90%) that I can live with the status quo. Perhaps a podiatrist and custom jobs would solve the problem completely...I live in hope.
Anyway, I just wanted to make the point that for those fiscally challenged if nothing else, the orthotics you buy at the chemist are not as bad as this thread makes them sound, at least in my experience. They may not solve all your problems, but they can keep you running.
I have been wearing orthotics for around 18 months now and I have not had any calf injuries in that time.
However they went missing along with my running shoes when my car was stolen recently. I could get them from the same place (Settle) but I thought I might try somewhere a bit more local to the Leeds area.
The main problem is that I can only get to the Settle clinic on a Saturday and they were only half-length and I would much prefer full-length ones
Any suggestions please
I wish I could help you there johnnybike but I'm based nr Scunthorpe! I use a company called Physiomed when my patients are in need of Orthotics, a common one I order is the full length 'pro step' for low arch pronating feet.
Their website add is www.physio-med.com
Good luck.
I'd use the same place. If you are lucky they might still have the molds so should be easy
Actually that is the problem Detritus21. He broke the mould last time (he won't charge me for a new one). So that means 2 trips to Settle, on Saturdays as I cannot get there through the week. He only opens one Saturday a month as well.
I did buy some online which are OK but I have now manged to get a cheque from the insurance company (payable to the Settle company) to cover everything (gait analysis, mould, consultation etc) when I really only need to pay for the inserts themselves.