Cramp!

Hi,

I get cramp/spasms in my calf muscles when running hard on the hills. Does anyone know what might cause this, and how I can stop it happening? Or is it just a lack of practice on the hills?

It generally happens when I have to stretch or jump to get over something, then I need to stop and stretch the muscle right out. I then complete my run at a slightly slower pace, with the fear that it might happen again, possibly leading to me landing like a sack of potatoes on the ground as my leg gives way underneath me!

Not sure if this should go under injuries or not.

But on long runs I struggle with cramp.

At Borrowdale at the weekend I drank plenty of liquid before the race (over 2 litres of SIS Electrolyte) and the cramp kicked in climbing bessyboot, on route I drank 2 litres of liquid. At the finishing after crossing the river the cramp was that bad I was struggling to walk to the finish!

Any suggestions on how to stop cramp?

http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?t=1123

Some interesting stuff in above thread.............

Cheers for that

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Originally Posted by hopey

Not sure if this should go under injuries or not.

But on long runs I struggle with cramp.

At Borrowdale at the weekend I drank plenty of liquid before the race (over 2 litres of SIS Electrolyte) and the cramp kicked in climbing bessyboot, on route I drank 2 litres of liquid. At the finishing after crossing the river the cramp was that bad I was struggling to walk to the finish!

Any suggestions on how to stop cramp?

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Cramp at bessyboot won't be related to loss of salt thru sweating was too early in the run!

Make sure your eating enough potassium all the time!

Might just have been the steepness of bessy. There ain't no climbs like that where we normally run!!

My chest muscles (what little I have) were killing me after that climb due to all the hands on knees stuff I'm not used to!

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Originally Posted by Calf

Cramp at bessyboot won't be related to loss of salt thru sweating was too early in the run!

Make sure your eating enough potassium all the time!

Might just have been the steepness of bessy. There ain't no climbs like that where we normally run!!

My chest muscles (what little I have) were killing me after that climb due to all the hands on knees stuff I'm not used to!

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Without meaning to sound dumb, what foods are best for potassium?

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Originally Posted by hopey

Without meaning to sound dumb, what foods are best for potassium?

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Bananas

banana's!!!

Might be worth a visit to the docs you could be running low!!!

I had a bit of cramp when I'd finished and didn't really look forward to the drive back but took one of them salt tabs and was fine!!

might be worth popping one of them before races???

I had a banana before I set off as well?

Would the doc do anything, my experience with docs and runnning, I would expect him to say 'well don't run as far then'.

You where supposed to give me a salt tablet? Where do you get them from?

On the old thread someone mentions Nuun tablets?

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Originally Posted by hopey

Without meaning to sound dumb, what foods are best for potassium?

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http://www.algaecal.com/potassium-foods.html

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Originally Posted by hopey

I had a banana before I set off as well?

Would the doc do anything, my experience with docs and runnning, I would expect him to say 'well don't run as far then'.

You where supposed to give me a salt tablet? Where do you get them from?

On the old thread someone mentions Nuun tablets?

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Nuun tabs are electrolite only tabs, don't they have any salt in, well certainly not alot!!!

google summit called salt sticks!!

Don't sound like your getting it from a long run thou as you got it at the start.

People do have low salt probs, and your running might just be making it more obvious!

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Originally Posted by hopey

Any suggestions on how to stop cramp?

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Run more miles and climb more hills.

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Originally Posted by david

Run more miles and climb more hills.

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A bit of a crap answer I know but this is probably the truth of it. I've only relatively recently (since March I guess) started a proper running schedule and its worked wonders with me - most of my runs include a good hill or two and I tend to put in 30 to 40 miles pretty much every week (when I'd been doing 15 to 20 previously).

Jumping back to April though, I wasn't so fit and within a two week period I ran the 3 peaks solo (as a refresher :rolleyes: ), did a fair bit of normal running, twisted my left knee and then decided to do the 3 peaks fell race on a pretty hot day and with a dodgy knee. I got round but I wasn't a pleasant sight at the end - I'd suffered massive cramp going up Whernside, massive cramp up and on top of Inglebrough but managed to stagger on to the end, running off most of the cramp going down.

But then I pretty much seized up after finishing with full body cramps - it took me almost 15 minutes to just get in my car.... seriously.

Since then though, although my running pace hasn't altered drastically, my cramp resistance and being able to finish a long fell run in goodish nick and a smile on my face have made massive improvements. I did the Wharfedale Off Road Marathon not so long ago and then Borrowdale this last weekend and felt fine after both, without a John Wayne walk and without crippling myself getting back in my car.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

A bit of a crap answer I know but this is probably the truth of it. I've only relatively recently (since March I guess) started a proper running schedule and its worked wonders with me - most of my runs include a good hill or two and I tend to put in 30 to 40 miles pretty much every week (when I'd been doing 15 to 20 previously).

Jumping back to April though, I wasn't so fit and within a two week period I ran the 3 peaks solo (as a refresher :rolleyes: ), did a fair bit of normal running, twisted my left knee and then decided to do the 3 peaks fell race on a pretty hot day and with a dodgy knee. I got round but I wasn't a pleasant sight at the end - I'd suffered massive cramp going up Whernside, massive cramp up and on top of Inglebrough but managed to stagger on to the end, running off most of the cramp going down.

But then I pretty much seized up after finishing with full body cramps - it took me almost 15 minutes to just get in my car.... seriously.

Since then though, although my running pace hasn't altered drastically, my cramp resistance and being able to finish a long fell run in goodish nick and a smile on my face have made massive improvements. I did the Wharfedale Off Road Marathon not so long ago and then Borrowdale this last weekend and felt fine after both, without a John Wayne walk and without crippling myself getting back in my car.

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Ey up Stolly I was at that one 2! wharfedale mara - I was the one running with the dog!!!

Have to agree with the above I think the only reason I got round Borrowdale feeling okay(ish!) all the way round was the amount of times I'd already recce'd it:rolleyes: that and the off road mara - being on your feet for over 5 hours on long runs as often i think helped but I know that's not as easy said as done

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Originally Posted by david

Run more miles and climb more hills.

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As I understand it the main reason for muscles cramping up is insufficient conditioning for the work they are being asked to do. Obviously being dehydrated is not going to help but there comes a point when no amount of water, salt, special isotonic brews or other mysterious potions is going to be of any help if the muscles are not properly conditioned. Hopey can't possibly have been dehydrated with the amount he had drunk before the race. Perhaps he drank too much? I know that if I drank that much before a race I'd chuck it all up again before I got to the top of the first hill. Especially mixed with a banana :eek:.

heard a very interesting discussion about milk being a good after exersise drink. it replaces a lot of the used up vitamen and fats and things!

Chocolate milk is good according to this study.

I reckon your problem was drinking too much fluids. This exact same thing happened to me a couple of years ago in the Borrowdale as well. I drank loads of fluids for a couple of days before the race and going up Bessy Boot I got cramp in my calfs just like you, so I can sympathise, its a long way to go from Bessy Boot until the end of the race as well. Someone told me that if you drink too much fluids before a race it flushes out all your natural minerals and so brings on cramp sooner. But it's a fine line, if you dont drink enough fluids you willl get cramp anyway. The other thing I have read is that calf stretching 3 times a day helps if you are prone to tight calfs. Also deep massage to the calf muscles get rid of all that knotty stuff which for me is the first place I get it. Finally though and maybe most importantly I think its down to fitness, I've never seen Jebby or Simon Booth complaining of cramp, so you have to get fitter.

Yes I hadn't trainned properly for Borrowdale, but most long races I tend to get cramp even when I'd put the miles in.

I'm going to have a look at my training and sort it out.

Thanks for all the replies

Did Helvellyn Tri in September and then The Roaches at the weekend and both races have seen me struggle with cramp. Never really had it before and don't get it on shorter races / runs. I always stay well hydrated (with electrolyte tabs) but it's becoming a bit of a nuisance.

Any recommendations?

Touch of Salt in your lucozade pal

It hurts!!!!:eek:

More miles.

Where do you get the cramp??? Has anything happened in a past race??

I only ask because at Winter Hill last year I fell - well more a case of my left leg wanted to stay in a bog as the rest of me carried on running!! My Calf tore slightly as a consequence - nothing too major really carried on running and training etc but ever since I get cramp a lot in the left calf.

Not always but it does happen. Happens on the bike too and running related more usually uphills on long runs - moving it in a certain way given that it was injured in the past must trigger something?? Not sure really

Anyone any ideas?

I always get cramp in the last couple of mile of the Three Peaks race and yet it never seems to bother me in other long races :mad:
In the 2008 race I'm gonna add salt to my drinks,anyone any idea what ratio of salt to a lucozade/power aid sized bottle ?

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Originally Posted by emmilou

Where do you get the cramp??? Has anything happened in a past race??

I only ask because at Winter Hill last year I fell - well more a case of my left leg wanted to stay in a bog as the rest of me carried on running!! My Calf tore slightly as a consequence - nothing too major really carried on running and training etc but ever since I get cramp a lot in the left calf.

Not always but it does happen. Happens on the bike too and running related more usually uphills on long runs - moving it in a certain way given that it was injured in the past must trigger something?? Not sure really

Anyone any ideas?

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At Helvellyn it was on the bike at the foot of Kirkstone Pass as I stood on the pedals for the first time. The cramp came on suddenly in my quads. At the Roaches, it was the turn of my right calf, running down a gentle gradient in the last mile. I have no injuries that might be linked and my regular training runs go upto about ten or eleven miles... maybe it's a case of more miles, I'm not sure... suggestions much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by david

More miles.

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Its not always that simple... I got terrible cramp at the Three Peaks in the boggy field at the bottom of Whernside (that's after 12 miles :eek: and suffered for the rest of the race). The same year I did both Wasdale and a 37 mile race without a single twinge...

I think the 3 Peaks is a bastard for cramp - the sheer climb up Whernside this year brought it on in my calves and then the trog from the pub in the valley to Inglebrough gave me cramp above the knees to balance things out. The 5 mile descent from Inglebrough just about finished me off with ample opportunity to trip and jerk my cramps back into life.

That said I've done a shed load of running since then with no cramp experienced at all running the Wharfedale off road marathon, none on the (albeit shortened) Borrowdale and none on the Langdlae Horseshoe (apart from a slight twinge lying in the stream at the end :)). I hate to say it but more miles with hills does probably reduce the likelyhood of cramp.

i'm not sure about that Stolly??? I did wharfedale too not a problem, Borrowdale not a problem. 26 miles on my bike - agony, Yorkshiremans half mara - was going swimmingly (see Brett!!) then mile 9 - bang! Agony limped back the rest of the way - 6 days later the Three Shires - fantastic run knocking nearly an hour of last years time didn't suffer cramp at all on that one - nearly broke my teeth falling over but hey!

all very confusing!!:confused:

I know its the winter but surely fellrunners dont compete with crampon(s)!

Might be my joke of the week next week lantern rouge!

Salt's the way to go.....carry a small sachet (like you get free in Mcdonalds or somewhere like that) in your bumbag, and have a suck on it on the way round.

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Originally Posted by FellMonster

Salt's the way to go.....

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I'd have thought so too but doing that Wharfedale offroad marathon on a beautifully sunny boiling hot day when I was sweating like a pig on a stick didn't give me cramp. To be fair they had a lot of drinks stations; something not included on many fell runs.

Boy was it hot!!! Still baring the scars from the sunburn!

I carry a sachet of Dioralyte from boots chemist has all the bits you need in it! its light and can be used in stream water.
i think its for when you have the trots!

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Originally Posted by emmilou

Boy was it hot!!! Still baring the scars from the sunburn!

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:) I ran with a couple of running club buddies one of which (a ging-er) had run the Edinburgh marathon the week before and whose best tan ever is still albino white - the sun hit him hard and eventually we had to leave him slumped against a tree down Mastiles Lane to die an honourable death. He did finish incredibly although he had to crawl some of the way :rolleyes:

There's seems to be something "crampy" about Three Peaks-type routes where there's good running mixed up with very steep climbs. Only bad cramp I've had this year (apart from London Marathon where I was crippled with it from mile 17) was at Holme Moss, which has some good running and some very steep ascents and descents. Keeping hydrated seems to be main thing for me and plain water is OK most of the time, including Wharfedale, where I had no problems during race but went a strange shade of green and had to sit down for 20mins afterwards:eek:

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Originally Posted by FellMonster

I know its the winter but surely fellrunners dont compete with crampon(s)!

Might be my joke of the week next week lantern rouge!

Salt's the way to go.....carry a small sachet (like you get free in Mcdonalds or somewhere like that) in your bumbag, and have a suck on it on the way round.

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This seems to be the most popular explanation... you get salt depleted.

So, I got myself some nuun tablets and followed the instructions... sensible of me.

Still got bloody cramp, but I must admit, it wasn't as bad as that at Helvellyn... so do I need to do the nuuns, and have some extra salt too?

Probably worth a go for the next longish day out... (BG leg 1 recce with the Crumblies). We'll see how that goes folks. Cheers for the guidance:)

As for pony joke of the week, Fellmonster, I challenge you to make something more of the 'crampon' play on words!

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Originally Posted by Amex

I carry a sachet of Dioralyte from boots chemist has all the bits you need in it! its light and can be used in stream water.
i think its for when you have the trots!

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Don't you need Dioralyte after indulging the stream water Russian roulette? And does it give ponies the trots or the canters?

And well done on your weekend's endeavours mate. Quite a schedule.

The most common reason why you get cramp is muscle fatigue and tightnest, Dehydration (not taking on enough water, especially in hot conditions). Low potassium or sodium (salt) levels and Low carbohydrate levels.

You can't stop cramp its involuntary but if you follow these rules you will reduce the chance of cramp.

Try a glass of tonic water before race, the quinine in it helps.

I take care of my Hydration before and during a race and use SIS Gels which i find help to keep my Electrolyte levels in balance and i seldom suffer cramp.