I've got a bike. In last couple of months I've replaced some of my running with bike riding - couple of times a week. Seems to have had a reasonably beneficial effect on my racing.
Anyone got any views on the benefits of cycling for fell runners?
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I've got a bike. In last couple of months I've replaced some of my running with bike riding - couple of times a week. Seems to have had a reasonably beneficial effect on my racing.
Anyone got any views on the benefits of cycling for fell runners?
Oh no not this old chesnut again........
Basically yes it can benefit you climbing, however you have to watch you don't tighten up too much and lose leg speed. The way to get the maximum benefits from cycling is by using a high RPM, and pushing low gears. If you don't have a cadence sensor, then get one, you want to use about 100+ (around about 120RPM) if you can.
I don't want to have to repeat myself again, but I did put a fairly substantial post about this ages ago. Perhaps someone else can take over from here???...
chris you dont seem convincedQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris
when you say you have had a reasonable beneficial effect im thinking that really in your case has it had that much of a positive effect on your results.
you are a very good runner and when i talked to you mentioned that you had a bout of illness and since coming back have had some good results.
but im wondering if the rest that was enforced on you gave you that desire to really do well again.
my views on cycling are very mixed, im not sure it benefits you that much to be honest, sure you can build up your fitness for climbing but the way you set off up a hill id be amazed if it really does improve you that much
why do you think it has had a better effect on your body
Both cycling and swimming have had a beneficial effect on my running.
But, this is largely because I have been doing them in addition to running sessions rather than instead of. This way I'm getting an additional low impact workout, while extra running would just make me even more injured.
However, I'm now looking at maybe replacing a bit of my running with cycling. The reason is
a) to be able to get up Kirkstone Pass
b) because I'm wondering if I could get some reasonable cycling improvement this way. In the only two tris I've done I've squeezed into the top third on the bike despite averaging only about 30 minutes a week training on it.
So, the for the next two months I'll be replacing at least one weekly run with cycling, and we''ll see what effect this has on both disciplines...
Mud, which is the hardest way over kirkstone pass, because theres the main road over and then "the struggle" that minor road from ambleside, do you know which route is hardest from north to south or vice versa as well? Just wondering
Anyone ever tried time trials?
I'm really missing competing whilst struggling with a long term injury and am thinking of having a go, any other suggestions on how to stay sane?
Mud
This is an age-old debate. From my own personal point of view cycling is a fundamental part of my training regime, but that's for specific reasons...
1 I don't have time to train as much as I'd like to, so I cycle commute to work and back which works out at 20 mpday ie 1hr 10mins
2 although I live near the fells, running from my doorstep would mean tarmac and since I'm prone to injuries at relatively low mileages I let the bike take the strain
3 I enjoy biking as much as running!
In the past I've managed regularly to be in the top 3 of low key local races on a background of running under 20mpw (but plenty of quality/hills in that 20miles) plus regular biking. I work on the basis of three miles on the bike cycling steady equating to a mile running steady, so a 20m commute = equivalent of 6 miles steady running. Long bike sessions are good for building endurance for long races - I found that that I ran PBs for races lasting 3hours plus when I was getting out for 100m on the bike regularly, although obviously if I'd run further in training it might have had the same/better effect!
If I ran more I would possibly be more competitive, but more likely more injured!
Thats interesting as I struggle with injuries from low mileage (struggle to get past 35 miles a week).
I think I'll get the bike out again.
Done one, a 10, I was ok, but I felt I held back too much, as I wasn't sure about where the finish line was. Blasted past the finish and was almost 2 miles down the road hard at it before I realised!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Rice Pudding
I'd recommend them though as they're good fun, and you push even harder than if you're out on a normal road ride.
know it is an old chestnut Allan T but your old thread was a long time ago, must have been before November which was when I got my bike so forgive me for bringing it up again.
For the last couple of months I have replaced two runs each week with a bike ride, like Allan T recommends I try to keep the gears low and cadence high and I love the big uphills. I look forward to the biking more than the running!
I have been running well recently,especially uphill although It's a bit too soon to give attribute this to bike riding.
I find the main benefit is that mixing running and biking gives your legs really good recovery from the specific damage that hard running does to your legs.
I
AlQuote:
Originally Posted by AllanT
You wouldn't mind repeating your self for a leggy 20 ish blonde girl i'll bet.;)
Seriously though I'd like to hear more on Bike v running training.
Ian
Ps see Vlad won again
Anybody out there ride fixed?
I reckon that riding up big hills on fixed, and then spinning like mad on the way down does good things for my running: the uphill riding requires a steady exerted effort, and strengthens the glutes and lower back. The downhill means high cadence (160+), and good practice in the 'disengage brain from legs' department.
This is very subjective I know , but having come from doing fixed wheel audax to fell running fairly recently, its definitely how it seems to me.
Kind of a different take on the bike complimenting running story
I consider myself a runner, its what i'm best at. Prior to running I was a cyclist for over 12 years and so have many mates who are cyclists and I continue to ride between 2 and 6 times/month to keep in touch with them (and also to give my body a rest from the impact of running without the guilt of missing training).
Although the long rides are a bit beyond me I find I am absolutely fine up to 50 -60 miles, keeping up with all but the very best (elite) riders. In time trials I find I'm able to get well under 24mins for a 10 and even managed under the hour for a 25 (although this did require me to get 2 good rides in per week)
During time trials I find that I reach the plateau where my legs can push no harder well before my CV system is too highly stressed so I tend to stand up, sprint a bit to get the MHP up by one or two then sit down again and repeat this throughout the time trial.
I'm not sure that cycling specifically helps my running but it's probably nearly as good as going for a run and I think it helps prevent injury and overtraining.
During marathon training I like to get some solo 4hr+ rides under my belt to help with endurance.
I haven't got the energy at the moment, still tired as I've been camping all weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
AS soon as I feel energetic I'll try and produce one of those replies like I did on the old forum.
Cycling isn't helping my running at the moment, I will miss out on the long fell race i need to do to qualify for a league position because i will be in London watching the Tour de France! Why cant i be in two places at the same time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Can't agree more!
Got myself a fixed for bike training at the start of year, having been injured for 2 months recently I did lots of riding, probably half of it on my fixie due to the wonderfull weather we've been having and on returning to running found my running fitness hadn't really deteriorated at all.
And for the down hill running and brain leg disconnect it is exactly the same feeling and once used to it on the bike, repeating it for fell running seemed alot easier than before!
My experience on this (and in fact with any physical stuff) is that you tend to be able to work more intensely at an activity as you get more used to that activity. e.g. when I race well I tend to be able to put myself in more pain and require more recovery than when I come up with something mediocre. My experience of cycling is similar in that when I do more of it I tend to be able to work harder at it and hold a higher, more running like, heart rate. Whereas when I go back to it after a long time I find the first couple of rides are hard but perversely not all intense and easier to recover from. I feel like in the cardio-vascular sense I'm working well within myself because the muscles aren't able to "keep pace" with the heart and lungs.
So I reckon if you're a decent cylist then it will probably help running because you'll be able to get a better workout out of it. If you are a relatively poor (compared with the level you are at running) cyclist then its probably not much use although prob poss to get more out of it with perseverance.
Overall, I'm a better runner than cyclist so don't find it all that much use for running training. But its still good fun!!
Agree with the comments about fixed wheels by the way. Probably good to combine a mix of pushing a high gear on climbs to build leg strenght together with a faster cadence on the flat so as to maintain muscle suppleness and avoid putting on excess muscle bulk. A fixed is ideal for this but you could do it on any bike provided you are tough enoguh to avoid changing gear when things get tough!!
I did a fair bit of work on my turbo-trainer a few years ago for about 6 months & it really helped my strength on the hills. At the time I was probably only doing 30-40 miles a week & not much hill work. I now rarely use my tt, but do more running miles & more hill work & I think I'm stronger on the hills than I've ever been. If I had more hours in the day I'd love to get on my bike a bit more for the cross-training benefits.
I reckon that if you don't do many miles/hill work then cycling will really help you, but if you're already a hard trainer then you won't get as much benefit.
Cycling is also good when you go through "Can't be arsed" periods, as it's a way of doing something different which will still keep a certian amount of fellrunning fitness.
Singlespeed Mountain biking seems to have done my fell running a world of good. A ratio of 32:16 (2 to 1) means you have to work hard on the ups, or face the ignomy of walking, thus making very strong climbing legs. It also seems to leave you open to derision and mockery from 'geared' mountain biking non-believers!
What is fixed/single speed?
One gear, usually specifically set to be as uncomfortable as possible on most terrain! Too high to climb easily, too low to avoid spinning like buggery on the flat. As a result you are forced to get strong and supple.
Never tried it - doesn't look like much fun to be honest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tVjKhfgVHY
this is a good clip chris
I didn't follow that very well, there Daz.
32:16 lad?? You wimps, I climb steep hills in 53:17.. :-PQuote:
Originally Posted by fishbulb
As for my mtn bike, well I rarely drop lower than the 34 ring, should really get that granny off as it's a waste of weight!!.. ;-)
As always, Sheldon Brown is a fountain of knowledge. Or have a chat with Brett, he's a fixed gear man as is Ady in Accy I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanT
how highs the hill about 60ft:rolleyes:
Singlespeed mtb is great. It does work the legs, but also the rest of the body due to the amount of heaving on the bars.
Add another 940ft to that.... :-PQuote:
Originally Posted by daz h
i would be surprised if you could turn the same ring as a pro cyclistQuote:
Originally Posted by AllanT
I don't see what the difficulty is with any cyclist pushing gears like 53:11? I ride in whatever gear I find most comfortable in the situation, and sometimes riding up hills 53:17 feels the best gear, especially if you're climbing out of the saddle, which as you know lowers your cadence.Quote:
Originally Posted by daz h
Until you've ridden with me, I don't think you could judge my ability on a bike. Perhaps you can explain why any normal everday cyclist couldn't use a 53 ring???
most cyclists ive ridden with prefer to drop onto the smaller ring for going uphill, if the hill is of a certain distance or gradient you have to drop down , you cannot stay on the 53 ringQuote:
Originally Posted by AllanT
Ilike to push the big ring on the road bike and never use the granny ring on the MTB. Different people, different styles. I cycled Lands end to John O Groats and only used the big ring on a fully laden mountain bike (including the climb over Shap fell)
your not a normal everday cyclistQuote:
Originally Posted by AllanT
Surely Rob Jebb would confirm the benefits of cycling.
I'll ask him when we're dicing up P-Y-G ;)
suffering from pf at the moment , so just going out on my bike is keeping me sain .
Maybe one of us should ask him about it.
I was talking to another forum member* recently who suggested that training wise fell running and cycling are more closely related than fell running and, say, road running. I think this is an interesting point. Anyone else got any views?
* It was AG, and if I have misrepresented him I'l buy him a pint!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funzle22
Have you read August 220Triathlon Chris? There's a fair sized article on fell running by Richard Askwith (He of Feet in the Clouds fame) with a piece by Jack Maitland (British Fell Running Champ) and now Triathlon coach at Leeds Met.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
I'll try and scan it somewhere.
Speak to John Brown, Jebbie, the Lassies & most of the rest of the top bunch... a lot of their training is cycle centered/assisted... ace for aiding climbing, low stress, a great aerobic work out... good fun too in the right setting.
Bit tough on the bum to start with!