Big Fella thanks 18/1 and Or Noir De Somoza 50/1 e/w for me :)
An exhilarating 10 minutes of sporting entertainment, awesome :)
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Big Fella thanks 18/1 and Or Noir De Somoza 50/1 e/w for me :)
An exhilarating 10 minutes of sporting entertainment, awesome :)
Silver by nature for me, Vic Venturi and Chief Dan George for the better half... all each way as paddy power are doing top 5 for the national.
Mrs Stagger had 1st & 2nd
Stagger & Son had 3rd.
William Hills have lost money to us this year:thumbup:
Who won?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
But did you see the ad that was on before it?
http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/i..._Race_90-1.mp4
One or two forumites in there.
Call me a party pooper but I know of no other sport where two of the participants can be fatally injured and yet there is barely a word said about it, except for the fact that it caused disruption for the first time ever as two of the jumps couldn't be jumped second time round.
I've always found horse racing to be quite barbaric in that respect. The horses are the real athletes in the race and yet their deaths during the race goes unnoticed :thunbdown:
well said there.
about time someone said this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
I still remember Alverton who won the Arkle Challenge Tropy in 1978 and the Cheltenham Gold Cup in 1979 (beating two great horses Tied Cottage and Aldaniti) and broke his neck at Bechers Brook in 1979. I couldn't understand why the owner would enter such a great horse in the lottery that is the National :angry:
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...t/Alverton.jpg
I think the problem of how to handle it is one I would rather not have as you are highly unlikely to handle it in a way that is satisfactory - and however you handle it the anti race lobby will jump on it as they have done in this case (not suggesting you guys commenting here are anti the race, but certainly some of the quoted
people on the news last night were)
It was more low key this time than before. I'm no sympathiser for the BBC but I think it's extremely difficult to get right.
I remember being sat there watching the Senna crash - I was crying as I knew he'd passed away, but you could see that the organisers didn't really know what to do.
Sport is riddled with fatalities, whether humans on their own, or such as horse racing. True sports challenge in such a way that it is inevitable from time to time.
I actually think the Grand National is a super event, but I also think that in an effort to make it safer, they have made it more dangerous. Speed is what kills and most of the fastest times have occurred during the modern era when the fences have been modified to be less dangerous to man and beast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I think we should be realistic about horse racing as well. Most race horses will end up in the knackers yard once they have finished racing not spending their retirement years in a quiet pasture somewhere.
The race was indeed marred by these fatallities. But these animals are bred to race and are well looked after during their life time, it is just unfortunate some are fatally injured on the race course and die in veiw of the public. Where would these horses be without racing though? They wouldnt, they would be long gone. Racing generates a massive income to the treasury also, this needs to be taken into account by all the anti racing crowd.
If I was told I would die running somewhere, Id take that over getn humanely destroyed after being deemed of no use anymore :p
That is the most ridiculous argument I have heard!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverand
The horses don't get a choice about death. To say that they wouldn't be alive in the first place if it weren't for horse racing and therefore it's acceptable for them to die racing is just an outrageous statement. It's as outrageous as the breeders and owners that put them to sleep when they are injured or can longher race on the basis that they 'wouldn't be happy if they weren't racing'. It's also the same ridiculous and selfish bull that some greyhound breeders and owners come out with.
The GN causes horse deaths almost every time it;s run and that;s what makes it stand out, for all the wrong reasons, against other horse races.
Fuel duty genereates an enoromous amount of revenue for the treasury doesn't make it right though does it!!
The GN is a race that tests horse and rider to the max that is what makes it exciting! Are we to go through life dumming everything down(would'nt it be boring) People have died doing marathons, does that mean we have to ban them! We run our fell races knowing that there is a element of danger, I for one find that exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
Horse racing - hate it.
Dog racing - hate it.
As has been previously mentioned, sport can be dangerous and these are all part of the risks and to an element the fun involved but - Senna died doing a sport he loved and chose to do, fell races could be dangerous - but we love and choose to do them, rock climbing is dangerous - but we choose to do it. The GN is dangerous but the horses do not get a choice to do it - if it was the jockey that was killed each time then that is acceptable as he has chose to do it, just like Peter Toole recently (although he is only in a coma).
It is very sad that two horses died during their runs at the GN, but unfortunately that is the nature of the sport. The effect is amplified countless times due to the media attention placed on this one race. The course, trainers and everyone involved have taken giant strides in recent years to mitigate much of the danger previously associated with the race. Unfortunate as it is when this happens people’s knee jerk reaction is centred on the 'cruelty' of the race: the demands of the high fences and the length of the race etc., this is something of a fallacy. During any race horses are tested to their limits, how many people have mentioned the horse that died at Doncaster on Saturday, racing a little over half a mile on the flat? It's a risky sport, people involved with it understand this, once a year punters don't hence the overreaction.
Whilst I appreciate the distinction between humans choosing and horses 'being forced' I don't think you can disagree that these animals are bred to jump and race and if you've spent any time around horses will know that they love to do so. If a horse didn't want to go round it wouldn't, as you'll know if you've seen horses refusing to enter stalls or unseating riders at the first fence - it's pretty difficult for a 9 stone jockey to stop a horse weighing around 70 stone doing what it wants to do.
There is a possible argument to have stricter entry requirements for the race. It could easily be argued that the two horses that died were not of a sufficient standard to even merit entry to the race.
People die in cars on motorways and urban roads, should we ban all driving?
Of course not.
So if you don't like racing don't watch it. The media and press is a pain in our country.
Any of you heard of Vodkatini? - He was a classy chaser that once went to post as favourite over Desert Orchid but refused to start.
It was a regular trait - if he didn't want to race, he didn't race. If he wanted to pull out during a race he would, once when in the lead with only 1 to jump.
He twice refused to start, gave the other horses 10 seconds, decided to set off after all and the won.
An amazing horse, a frustrating but fascinating character.
Animals cannot be forced. They have to get something out of it and generally you can see they enjoy it.
My Senna comparison was not on the topic of choice - it was to demonstrate the difficulty that broadcasters have when faced with live tragedy. Senna, Hillsborough, the Twin Towers etc - how do you handle these type of events as they unfold before you?Quote:
Originally Posted by sore legs
I would argue that the horses did love what they did and of course they don't make the race entries, but they enjoy the excitement and exhilaration of the race.
Of course you are fully entitled to your opinion and I doubt it is likely to change.
But horse racing is not barbaric. It has a risk element to it that can lead to tragedy - the question is at what point is the line drawn. I am sure that the racing industry will continue to do what it can to improve the safety for the horses and jockeys as it has done over the years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
I tend to agree with you Flopsy, I've always felt that the National is a shocker of a race, especially on a warm day like it was on Saturday.
I've never been anti-horse racing, but I certainly felt a pang when the camera was following the horses as they veered round a fence and there was a big blanket behind it plain to see.
Certainly put the £12 I was about to lose in perspective.
Saturday was the first time I've ever bet on a horse race, and I too had that sickening feeling along with a feeling of guilt that my money had supported the event. Won't be doing it again thats for sure. Le Tour however is a different matter ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by L.F.F.
I'd probably take up cycling. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverand
How many animals do aside from household pets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
WP - I hold nowt against those that have an interest and like the sport but it is not for me. As for your point about the difficulty that broadcasters face - that is a tricky situation - but for me, I think they should show the full events and let people draw their own conclusions and deal with it in their own way. These things are only different to what they show on the news about other stories because they are happening in the UK so therefore we feel that we can relate to them more easily - it is a difficult one though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
On the news, it is possible for a newsreader to advise that "the following events may cause distress ......" but with live footage it isn't. Football players broken legs often don't get replayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by sore legs
I'm not someone who reacts badly to things like that, but some are and so it's always a difficult call for the broadcaster and they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
Male spiders?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverand
I'm glad I don't have to watch that on a saturday afternoon. :w00t:
Lemmings.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
Not an easy one with lots of emotive positions on both sides of the argument. I was there as a complete neutral...horse racing leaves me cold but I was there on a stag weekend. At the track, we had no idea that 2 horses had been killed. Its a VERY big place. 2 mile laps! All you really know is that lots of horses fall and the jockeys are blo*dy nuts. I would liken the fall they take to be equivalent to taking a running jump out of your bedroom window onto the lawn. You can see the risk that is being taken. But does that mean we should stop it? It crosses into the whole 'animal rights' issue that, as we know, incites some humans to kill others so its a very deep argument.
If we banned it, what would take its place?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe5mk1ISKS8Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
:DPerfect!
Killyglen
Treacle
West End Rocker
Rare Bob
According to Pete
you heard it here first.
I totally agree L.F.F.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.F.F.
Why when a horse breaks a leg, do they put it down? I can understand it not racing again, but to just kill it. :thunbdown:
Apparently they can't cast it as the horse won't keep its weight off it and it all gets very messy and painful for the horse. Agree though, it's all very grim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry
Brough Scott, the racing commentator and former jockey, said last night: “Synchronised was a very fine and a very brave horse. This is very sad news. But I believe these incidents are unavoidable. They happen. People go mountaineering and are killed. There are risks in competitive sport.”
Well I don't know many horses who go mountaineering :confused:
It reminds me of the death of that fine horse 'Alverton,' another Gold Cup winner, at the National. Synchronised was a gelding so no money to make out of it at stud so run it till you kill it, saves on food and vets bills later and you get the insurance of course :thunbdown: :rolleyes:
wow, you should apply for a column on the Daily Mail they'd love your ill informed view and sweeping misconceptions !Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf
totally agreed. our television stays off during Cruel National days as it upsets my other half who has her own horses. also agree with other post that questions the sanity of owners putting valuable horses into such a dangerous situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
It is now hitting the press but will anything get done. I doubt it. too much money involved and the milliners would go bust if it was stopped
It would seem the horses do not matter - it is all about betting and fashion.
An interview with one of the owners seemed to imply that he had no knowledge of his horse being put down - the on course vets just took the decision without consulting him. Maybe you sign away your horse when you enter the race, but it all seemed a bit bizzare to me. He also said he wouldn't enter any future horses into the event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf
Bloody hell Alf - you want to get on ebay to buy a club, so that you can give it those seals big time :w00t: