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Has anyone got any children or family members (juniors) who go to Rotherham Harriers as i am taking my son tonight. They read like a very good club for juniors and even have a trail and fell section for him.I just wondered if anyone had actual experience with the club.
No direct knowledge or experience, but they have successfully participated in the English junior championship in recent years.
I don't often disagree with you Jim, but that is stretching it a bit ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FellJunior
2011 - no athletes in any race
2010 - 1 athletes running 1 race each.
2009 - 1 athlete with 2 runs and 1 athlete with 1 run.
2008 - 1 athlete with 4 runs.
It's a shame really with the Peak District and South Pennines on the doorstep that junior fell running isn't more prevalent in the South Yorkshire, Derbyshire and Cheshire areas.
Assuming you live in Rotherham, Rotherham is the logical choice of club, have had some success with junior endurance runners as well as some decent seniors and will serve you well, but you will probably have to go down the fell route on your own or look to develop it yourself.
I would suggest approaching the endurance coach and see what their views are on Junior Fell. Some don't like it. But they may be happy to support it and for you to actively encourage it so that you get a small group together.
That's really how we got it going around 6 years ago at BBH - with 2 families going to races and others joining in the fun :D
Slightly farther afield Holmfirth and Mansfield are your nearest clubs that "support" junior fell.
Worth a thought for sure. I know who the endurance coach is and i will ask him.
I was thinking more of the 4th and 8th final placings, admittedly achieved by the same runner, but nevertheless perhaps in some way due to the club's encouragement and coaching. Not in the same league as the mighty Blackburn, but from small acorns etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
The "mighty" BBH is more about quality juniors than quantity on the fells - we do have some particularly good individuals and of course fell running is promoted in the club as a positive and enjoyable branch of the sport for a young endurance runner that can also be a great day out for the family as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellJunior
It really is difficult though. If someone asks for a junior fell club in the Lancs area you have a good few options, same for West / North Yorkshire and Cumbria. But outside of these areas we have only a few isolated clubs in England that support junior fell running.
Ask about a good senior fell club though and it's likely to be a different answer. Fell clubs tend to be good senior clubs or good junior clubs.
Look in Lancs at the Junior clubs - BBH, Rossy, Pendle, Horwich, Lancaster & Morecambe - then look at which of these can punch it's weight in senior fell club terms and it's more difficult.
Clubs like CLEM, Bowland - even Pudsey & B and Northumberland Fell Runners now have Lancs based senior fell runners.
It seems to me though that too many of the fell clubs (and one might argue endurance clubs) are fell only senior groups aiming at placing in the team events. Where do they think the next generation of younger athletes are going to come from?
Team events are great fun and I can tell you from my young athletes' experiences that they love the road and XC Relays and as they get older I get enquiries about when they can take part in the Pennine Bridleway and FRA Relays.
If all the juniors progressed through it would be fine, but of course there is a drop out rate, so the 6 - 8 U13 Girls that we often have at any one time can be 4 - 6 U17 Women and then 1 Senior Woman if we are lucky.
The 1 x Senior Woman cannot run in a Endurance Relay event alone so then what?
I'm not sure how this is resolved. But I do think the trend of the last 30 years for the one local club to split through factions and differences of often individual disagreements needs to be reversed.
It looks like Chorley AC and Chorley Harriers may resolve to merge in the near future and we have seen locally Blackpool Wyre and Fylde form from 2 clubs successfully. I think it makes sense for all concerned at the Chorley Clubs and I wish them luck with it.
I think it might be best for others to all look at for the good of the sport and the athletes.
How is this relevant to the thread?
Well the Rotherham area doesn't have a "Fell Club" and could it be that there are so many clubs operating in the patch of say a 12 mile radius of Rotherham that the coaches and volunteers are spread so thin that they cannot offer a wider choice.
Hallamshire
City of Sheffield
Barnsley AC
Doncaster AC
Dark Peak
Pennistone Footpath
Steel City Striders
Wombwell AC
That's off the top of my head - I expect there's double that. Now it's a large area and can handle having 3 or 4 clubs, of that I'm sure, but there's too many really.
Interesting to read your posts on this thread Witton. I know my club Pennine has lots of kids running and there's a few tasty juniors in the ranks. I'm not sure about English Champs but I'm pretty sure theres been a couple racing.
Pennine has a series of winter races for juniors attached to the senior handicap series and it seems very popular as do races like the Hayfield May Queen and Lantern Pike Dash. But I don't see too many races for juniors in the Greater Manchester/Lancashire area. Is this because of a lack of volunteers or because most of them are concentrating on track and cross country?
Sorry to take the thread off topic just interested that's all!
See this link. First (experimental) year, with the possibility of inviting more clubs as it becomes established.
Penistone FPR have a very active junior section with twice weekly training sessions, Not sure how much is fell, probably mainly road/Cross country as have Hallamshire Harriers.
Penistone have quite a waiting list though
That's brilliant it would be good if there was something like that this side of the Peak.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellJunior
Where are they "active".Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
I see the seniors at a FRA Relays perhaps or Pennine Bridleway, but as for juniors they have 5 that show up on the Power of 10 which doesn't seem to suggest much activity and I can't recall coming across a junior from Penistone.
Of course not all races show on there, but it gives an indication.
http://www.thepowerof10.info/athlete...club=penistone
It's not easy to answer why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
Take your club for example. Only one of those "lots of kids" is registering in the FRA Junior this year. An U12 Boy. There's the odd other appearance in the U8 and U10 that are non Champs as well, but certainly not a "club presence" - it seems a particular family are the main-stay of the Pennine FR FRA Junior effort.
I can only really speak for ours. As I've stated before we started with a family. They went to Rivington and asked us to go along when I was just starting coaching. I enjoyed it and the rest is history.
But the push for us to attend junior fell is mainly from me and if I was hit by a bus tomorrow, maybe the it would dwindle over the next few years without that person continually promoting it and drawing in new athletes.
I would hope not - but I suspect that is why clubs have cycles of success and relative obscurity, mainly down to the personalities that drive the club forward and their ability to put their time in to it.
It's not the races that tends to be the problem. Clubs tend to have endurance coaches and a large proportion of them feel that junior fell running should be avoided or even banned. That view often comes from coaches who have never been to a junior fell race and perceive them all as rocky, ankle breaking courses for nutters, when in fact most of the FRA courses are line XC or trail races but with fell levels of ascent and descent, such as Pendle, Coiners, Clougha.
Whether we can break that mindset of the coaches at some clubs I doubt. Even then there are so many pressures on junior athletes at clubs that try to do track and fell that they may still be against it anyway.
Its the same with our club Notts AC. There are very few fell runners or those interested but we have found that through our kids doing cross country and endurance training they are able to convert that into successfully running on the fells. they,ve done quite well in some BOFRAs and the uphill only at Sedburgh earlier this year. It would be nice to have a fell club nearer to hand but I think a keen athletics or running club that offers good endurance training and a freindship group for your son is at this stage just as important as specialising. There are then plenty of races gfor him to enter to see how he takes to the fell. I think Stuart Bond started by being a track and X country athlete before turning to the fells at a later age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I'll try and find out. I do know that there is a waiting list to join the juniors section thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I think Ian DP means active in that we have around 40 (potentially 60 members) Juniors attending training sessions every week, ranging from 8yrs to 16yrs. We are affilliated to T& F, X-C and Fell.We do have some talented Junior runners. Our main problem is getting the Juniors to compete in competitions ie we were represented in SY Track and Field by 4 athletes, 3 more than the previous Year! Hopefully X-Country series will attract a few more, as for fell running there is a lack of races in the area to attend, so if Juniors or Parents are not prepared to run locally I cannot see them making trips to the Dales or Lakes for competition.
RR - we are in the same boat and I think many clubs are.
We have a junior group that does sportshall athletics and is mainly aimed at the Primary School kids. They rarely compete and it's difficult to get most of them to progress through to mainstream athletics and become involved in other groups once they go to secondary school.
The coaches try to get them out, but it's difficult.
My own Endurance Group is split in 2.
We have the "A" Group which is mainly older and established junior girl athletes from the age of 12 - 18.
We then have the "B" Group which is those either at the younger end from 7 - 11 or older part-timers perhaps up to 14 that run for fitness, perhaps with another sport in mind.
The A Group of around 18 athletes are in the main regular competitors and reasonably committed to the sport. There's usually an odd one or two that are on the verge of lapsing as they've stopped training away from the club perhaps. But in the main they all muck in for each over and enjoy the social side of going to fixtures as well as the event itself.
The B Group is perhaps 40 strong but all bar about 8 are "casual" attendees of sessions and rare competitors. Perhaps 15 - 20 have never competed. The 8 are keen and will progress to the A group in the next year or so, the rest - well who knows?
So it looks like we are really no different and from conversations with other clubs, we are all in the same boat.
I think that perhaps in athletics we are too "soft" when it comes to pushing the competitive side of our sport and so we attract the keep fit brigade. Just to give you an example.
I've had on a few occasions parents who have come down with their unfit 11 year old and joined our sessions. In time it becomes clear they have been told by their football club that they must get fit or move on.
The football club has even suggested that they come to us - that's girls as well as boys - they spend 6 - 12 months with us and then drift away.
You will all know that most athletics fixtures are weekend and this group have excuses such as
"If I don't go to football then I will get kicked out of the team" - should I do the same?
"I have to play netball for the school Saturday" - so why take up athletics then?
"Dance lessons"
I even had cheer-leading once.
But I have found races such as Chorley Park Friday night races, Tuesday Bunny Runs, Sunday fell races and fun runs etc and I still can't seem to get them there.
The most galling thing is when you see kids (and this happens a lot) that you have tried to get to competitions for 2 years turn up at the Town Schools XC on a Saturday morning when you've not been able to get them to a Saturday morning fixture ever!!
So they do not come because they want to do athletics.
I think we also suffer from the "Honey we're Killing our Kids" brigade of parents who feel that the 1 hour per week of athletics ticks the physical activity box for their little one.
But when it comes to driving a few miles and giving up an afternoon to compete, that's a tick too far.
I've coached for 6 years now and have accepted the high % of casuals on the basis that they may well get the bug, that some small taste of success may well give them that kick-start that they need (and usually the parents rather than the kid) to get more involved and take the athletics more seriously.
But my current A group is all made up of athletes that have come to the club, competed from the start and shown a positive attitude to their individual targets as well as club / team events.
The 8ish in my B group, I know will progress, perhaps with another club eventually, but they are keen, interested and engaged and I have a few quite young ones in the 7 - 9 age range that I wouldn't expect to do anything other than run around as they want with a smile on their face.
But I am coming more and more to the conclusion that I have to be tougher with the casuals and give them a "minimum" target for training and attending fixtures. It might seem harsh, but half of the athletes I am responsible for are taking some of my time away from those that really are keen to improve.
You make some good points Mr. Witton
Competitions are an essential part of a juniors athletic development. Those not intersted must not be allowed to take time and resource away from those who are!
Every other sport you train at you end up competing (football,Basketball, tennis everything), however certain athletic clubs are giving up precious coaches and track space to juniors who have no interest in the sport.
be tough Mr. Witton
that saved me giving you a call Ian, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Man
You can live your life no more by The Power of 10 than you can by The Power of GreyskullQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I understand your frustrations Mr Park but the moment you start to turn away the casuals, you will kill the sport. Let them come by all means but gear all your efforts towards the dedicated few.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Sadly, football will likely always win over due to it's status and the fact that it's a team sport- you train, win and lose together and it softens the blows in defeat. Running is not quite the same and your experience with young children's greater enjoyment of relays supports my point.
Enlightening stuff :/
And there's me thinking that it was YOU that was moaning about the disenchanted youth? I come offering good advice Mr Park on a subject I have considerable experience and with no hidden agenda. Well I'm sorry if it hasn't ticked your "its what I wanted to hear box" but it was genuine advice. Il leave you to the power of 10 and a shower of hugs.XxKKQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I come offering good advice Mr Park on a subject I have considerable experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by Keswick_Krumble
So that's good advice is it? Experience of Masters of the Universe isn't that relevant is it? and it's Grayskull ;)
I think you know that I was referring to the following post but YES, the post you highlighted was also good advice :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park