Mountain marathon advice

My friend and I are doing the Highlander MM in April 2012 and are after some hints and tips. I've done a few MMs before and we both have decent gear (both of us are gear freaks) which is both light and functional- eg laser tent, PHD sleeping bags and the like. Was just wondering if anyone has any good ideas/insider knowledge re food, clothing and navigation as it'll help make this MM my mates first of many as oppose to his first and last.
We'll be doing the "D" class as an intro (I've already done this class in 2010) so we shouldn't be rushing to get round in time. The main thing will be enjoying it as oppose to shaving seconds from our time.
Any ideas will be much appreciated.

Check out the 'MM Kit' thread in the 'Equipment' section, lots of good general MM advice on there. For me though:

Food - don't leave yourself hungry, but don't carry too much. Think about exactly what you'll eat in camp and estimate your time on the course and work out how much you need to consume to keep going for that amount of time. Dry food in camp is a winner as you've got plenty of time to sit around boiling stuff up.

Clothing - loads on the thread I mentioned, but again, take what's necessary and no more. I really think a good Primaloft top is a must. Keeps you warm on the hill if things go tits up, keeps you warm when sat around camp, boosts your sleeping bag warmth or makes a great pillow when wrapped in a Buff. Take a thin pair of dry socks for camp, but put your wet ones on for day 2. Feels uncomfortable for a few seconds, but they soon warm up and you're not left carrying the extra weight of wet socks. Alternatively, don't take a spare pair and cook your socks in the pan before putting them on for day 2. My MM partner has done this. Smells odd, but he said his feet were lovely and warm.

Nav - take your time and concentrate! Plan the legs and make route choices on easier sections of running. Don't stand around at a control planning the next leg. If in doubt, straight is great! As a rough guide 100m climb works out something like 1k flat, so don't go round a climb unless it's going to be beneficial... in my experience too may teams shy away from climbs. Look at the route choices of the top teams, they don't. Learn to love your route. Once you've made a decision, get on with it and don't worry about the option(s) you didn't choose.

You are probably already aware of the important trick of taking plastic bags to keep your feet dry inside your wet shoes at midcamp, but make sure you remind your partner!

Defo dry food, really tasty after a hard days running. I always start my evening food with a nice cup of tea, followed by a cup a soup, dry food and a nutrigrain as pudding. For the day i carry jellie babys energy gels and nuun tablets to go in the water. And as a little treat at mid camp i have a whiskey mini bottle before hitting the sack. I dont do fancy titanium cutlery, a kfc spork is plastic and no weight to it. The plastic bags in your we shoes is a must. I take a mini soap bar to have a wash at mid camp.
With regards to nav, i tend to thumb the map, keep a very close eye on where you are, i've gone past checkpoints in the past because i wasn't concentrating as well as i should, micro nav is the key, i wrap my dry clothing in my water proofs ( unless i' m wearing them of course) in my sac and sleeping bag in a bin liner.

How much food do people take for the Highlander MM as Some food is provided at the overnighter? We will take Breakfast, emergency food, drinks snacks and stuff to get us through the day but I was wondering what else other teams take.

Q re: Speed over the ground and navigation

I know my pace for road and trail, and can make a good guess when running a known route how much an incline will slow me down.
I'm in the Medium Score for the first time this year. Club members who have done similar reckon on covering 4.5 to 5km an hour over the ground during an OMM, i.e. 30km on a 6hr medium score
This seems much slower than my usual off-road pace - i.e even at an average of (say) 10-minute miles, 6 miles an hour hill/ trail training, would be over 9km/hr.
Looking at these numbers, running 36miles on day one is for me unfeasible, so the 4.5to 5k per hour seems like a more realistic estimate, and of course there's no easy way to allow for navigation time, without getting lost on a regular basis.

Anyone know what a reasonable idea of the range of speed and distance covered is during the lower score classes of OMM entrants? The straight course classes of course tell you the approximate distance; the score of course doesn't

You could try looking at the courses on route gadget and see what people actually did.
Unless you know them it is only limited help - but a start.
If you know one of the areas a little that will help even more - to understand why it was hard or easy going etc

I'm pretty sure the classic "mountain navigation for runners" speak of around 5km/hr for MM's. I'll check when I get home. I think they are definately more about spot on nav than super speed (unless you're elite then you need both).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drmorris

Q re: Speed over the ground and navigation

I know my pace for road and trail, and can make a good guess when running a known route how much an incline will slow me down.
I'm in the Medium Score for the first time this year. Club members who have done similar reckon on covering 4.5 to 5km an hour over the ground during an OMM, i.e. 30km on a 6hr medium score
This seems much slower than my usual off-road pace - i.e even at an average of (say) 10-minute miles, 6 miles an hour hill/ trail training, would be over 9km/hr.
Looking at these numbers, running 36miles on day one is for me unfeasible, so the 4.5to 5k per hour seems like a more realistic estimate, and of course there's no easy way to allow for navigation time, without getting lost on a regular basis.

Anyone know what a reasonable idea of the range of speed and distance covered is during the lower score classes of OMM entrants? The straight course classes of course tell you the approximate distance; the score of course doesn't

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It IS much slower, some of the ground can be pretty rough. Don't underestimate how much a bag slows you down as well...

Edale Syline 2011 - 9km/hr
Borrowdale 2011 - 5.5km/hr
Day 1 of Rab MM 2011 - 4.5km/hr

I had skipped over the page in Mountain Nav for runners that mentions 5km/hr as the speed which is 'rarely exceeded'
In the fog yesterday on Sutton Common/ Wincle Minn, up hills, on paths and off, but in an unfamiliar area, I managed not-quite-5 miles an hour.

Logically it all makes sense, and makes for a better event in prospect ;-)

Doing the first Spring Rab/ Dark+White mini-MM on Sunday. It's in an area I know, and on paths, so will aim for similar - 5 miles an hour - and see how i get on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drmorris

I had skipped over the page in Mountain Nav for runners that mentions 5km/hr as the speed which is 'rarely exceeded'
In the fog yesterday on Sutton Common/ Wincle Minn, up hills, on paths and off, but in an unfamiliar area, I managed not-quite-5 miles an hour.

Logically it all makes sense, and makes for a better event in prospect ;-)

Doing the first Spring Rab/ Dark+White mini-MM on Sunday. It's in an area I know, and on paths, so will aim for similar - 5 miles an hour - and see how i get on

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As mentioned above, it's the terrain that can really slow you down. In my experience the OMM dishes up the most brutal terrain; not the biggest climbs, but rough, slow going and tough nav (especially on the score classes). For Long Score on Dartmoor in 2010 (which wasn't that slow going) 7k/h would've won, 6k/h you'd be top 10 or thereabouts (assuming you made the most of the distance covered).

Well, I did the D+W miniMM yesterday, and managed 14miles in 3hrs, picking up 210 points and finishing 58th of 104 runners/teams.
It was on paths/ rights-of-way, and an area I knew.

Used the trick of a piece of string marked at 1km(4cm)intervals and reduced my sights down so only marked out 20km, but ended up doing a little more (22.4km) as I used the string on the way round, and bagged a couple of extra checks.
I can easily see 4.5-5km/ hr will be enough on the OMM

A good day out. I carried my OMM pack and a good load of kit, as I wasn't out to win but to get an idea/ training.

Happy with the result, just slight issue with chafing inner thigh :-(

Good practice; for me, locally, this series and the Gritstone Tryal look like they are going to be a good spring/ summer of events

Read "Mud, Sweat, and Tears" by Moire O'Sullivan (http://moireosullivan.com/). She conquered mountain marathoning and offers some great advice! Good luck, and don't rush!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drmorris

Well, I did the D+W miniMM yesterday, and managed 14miles in 3hrs, picking up 210 points and finishing 58th of 104 runners/teams.
It was on paths/ rights-of-way, and an area I knew.

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They're fun aren't they! I'll add another data point to the ones I quoted earlier - I did the one in Calver, got 206 points, did a similar distance, and came 52/150. So now we can race each other if we do the same one :)

I am being lazy here as I could search through the race calendar, but what long distance races/mountain marathons are available in the Autumn?
My brother is interested in coming over from Ireland for one.

Peris I am aware of having done it myself.

Your right Pat, that is been lazy :wink:. Okay what we are looking for is a recommended 15-25 miler that will not require extreme "mountain goat" skills from an "old crock" like me. August-October time frame be nice.

John

Hello
we have a course on Nav and a drop in chat area that will cover a lot of aspects of MM and adventure racing. On 12 Jan in Keswick
http://www.nav4.co.uk/nav4-training/...-training-day/

Come along and ask a load of questions and have a good day out to.

Cheers

Stumpy