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Has anyone got a map of the Buttermere Horseshoe Race? I don't mean the Buttermere Sailbeck Horseshoe. I was chatting to someone last night and they told me about a 20 mile 8000ft epic.
Us whipper snappers on the 30 at 30 thread might find it handy. Why did the race stop? it sounds great!
Interested too,
Been looking out for this race route for a couple of years, not a sniff. fancy iit as a big day out.
Have done several big days out around the valley, but always wondered where it started/ended and what were the check points.
Heard it was lost because there were more marshalls than competitors... don't know how true this is?
From my conversation it seems like it covered some of the same fells as TWA and certainly tackled the steep descent from Whitless to Newlands Hause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennings
If you consider the popularity of the Lakeland Classic Series I bet it could be resurrected - if there weren't any problems with access.
We'll have to keep this thread going I bet most of the folk with the info are on Jura at the moment!
did it exist for very long? cant find it in SMOTS :confused:
I could have the name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by geofpet
I remember it. It was held for a couple of years in the late 80s I think (so post-SMOTS). I recall Colin Valentine winning it I think but I'm struggling to remember the actual route... I think it started and finished at Loweswater.
I don't know the actual route, but I'd imagine you'd be starting at Loweswater to get that distance. Presumably it was some variation on the greater Buttermere Round - Melbreak (or High Comb), up onto Red Pike/High Stile/High Crag, Haystacks, out to Honister, Dale Head/Hindscarth/Robinson, then some collection of Grassmoor block before heading back. Or the other direction.
There's some information in a couple of old DPFR newsletters at http://www.dpfr.org.uk/newsletters/3.pdf and http://www.dpfr.org.uk/newsletters/14.pdf.
Ah, wasn't so far off. Just backwards.
However, even going looking for peaks and being generous about what counts, I think you'll struggle to get 30 out of it.
My count of possibles:
Whin Ben
Whiteside
Hopefully Head
Sand Hill
Grassmoor
Crag Hill
Sail
Ard Crags
Knott Rigg
(Newlands Hause)
High Snockrigg
Robinson
Hindscarth
Dale Head
(Honister)
Grey Knotts
Brandteth
Haystacks
Seat
High Crag
High Stile
Red Pike
Little Dodd
Starling Dodd (this and previous added in to up numbers!)
Melbreak (both summits?)
That makes 23, I think, or 24 if you can convince yourself of the 2 Melbreak Summits. On which grounds, Haystacks could claim 3 summits which would get you to 26...... Still a few to magic up!
Remembered this, though. Starting from Cockermouth might get you the extras ;-)
http://www.spatialconsultants.com/co...flood-defences
Not a whipper or a snapper DD, sadly, but this could be the 30 at 30 route as I usually get lost anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
Rombald, thanks so much for those links - I've really enjoyed reading the old KIMM and LDMT reports as well as the Buttermere and other race ones. Will have to give those Buttermere routes a go. Loved the comments about "state of the art" kit and nutrition from the 84 LDMT :D
P
Thanks for all the information. Those reports in the DP newsletter are brilliant, it's a real shame this race isn't being run anymore. I wonder if it could be resurrected?
Graham Breeze has very kindly given me more information about this race:
"Held 11 times from Loweswater Village Hall. Second weekend in August. Originally advertised as 24m and 9000' but later as 20m and 8000'
Last held in 1992 because after 3 years Pete Skelton stood down and nobody would take it on.
Records were 3.30.13 (1990) D. Lee and 4.08.10 (1990) H.Diamantides
Billy Bland won the first one and the last one was won by Jonny Bland (Borrowdale) in 3.33.39.
The race used to be sponsored by the Scale Hotel but when this closed things became difficult."
I'm surprised it was held that many times.. not because it was a bad race but it just seemed to come and go quite quickly. I thought it was worthy of taking its place alongside Ennerdale and Wasdale as one of the classic long horseshoes of the Lakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
Maybe still could if it was resurrected, but I suppose it would be difficult to get access when you consider all the races being held in that part of the lakes now. I'd have a crack at organising it myself, but I'm not sure it's possible living in Manchester!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellhound
Dan,
I've often wondered about this race myself, and mentioned it to Pete Nelson (who organised it for a while I think - possibly who Graham meant) when I was chatting to him only this February. He did tell me the route then, but I couldn't remember the detail - I might see him tomorrow to ask him again.
I also mentioned this on our club run last night (whilst going over Red Pike to Scarth Gap from Buttermere - felt appropriate!) and there was some interest in it. If you want I'll mention it in our next club meeting (12th June) to see if there is the appetite to organise it as a club (CFR). I think if we can get it to finish at the Kirkstile Inn it would be a perfect finish to a race!
That would be amazing - thanks. When you consider the amount of interest in other long Lakeland races, I'm sure there are enough runners who'd be interested. Like I said before I live in Manchester, but I'd be happy to help in any way I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemming
I agree with Lemming. Sounds like a pefect opportunity for CFR. It looks such a good logical and classic route to take. A kirkstile start and finsih would be perfect. Oh. I am salivating already!
Dan, living in Manchester does not preclude you from organising a race in the Lakes. Bear in mind that several people who have been the Jura RO over the years have resided in Lancashire and Yorkshire. Alan Kenny ( Morecambe area ) has been RO for OCT and Grizedale Horseshoe. Not to mention that for the first 12 editions of the Anniversary Waltz, Steve & Wynn were residents of Leicester; and Yiannis organises the Arenig Fawr race ( between Bala & Trawsfynydd ) despite living in Liverpool. You can do it if you really want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
Ian.
P.S. I first spotted it in the 1985 FRA Calendar but fom previous posts it obviously was run before that.
We'll see how the CFR talks go and if they break down I'll give it a shot!Quote:
Originally Posted by wheezing donkey
Graham informs me that Pete Nelson started the race and Pete Skelton organised the last three races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemming
How could I doubt Graham on race details? Silly mistake.
I missed Pete (Nelson) on Thursday, so I've just emailed him to see what he remembers about the race.
Don't have scanner but here are some snippets from race report in Up & Down magazine Nov/Dec 1990:
Buttermere Horseshoe Fell Race, Loweswater Cumbria. Cat A Long, 20 miles/8000ft; 11th August 1990
Headline "Helene's Supremacy - 6th O/A"
1. Donald Lee, CFR, 3-30-13
2. Adrian Jones, Glossop, 3-37-47
3. Bob Berzins, Dark Peak, 3-53-08
Ladies
6. Helene Diamantedes, Ambleside, 4-08-10
21. Cath Proctor, Mandale, 4-37-53
31. Ruth Pickvance, CLeM, 4-55-25
Checkpoints (OS Sheet 89, West Cumbria)
Start/Finish: Loweswater Village Hall - 140201
1. Grassmoor - 175204
2. Robinson - 203168
3. Dalehead - 224153
4. Innominate Tarn - 197129
5. High Style - 169146
6. Mellbreak (South Top) - 148186
7. Track - 13191
On closer reading it looks like they organised it with the following on the same day:
Mellbreak Two Tops; Cat A Short, 5 miles/1400 ft; 11 August 1990
Headline - "44 Runners - A Record!"
"Inaugurated in 1985, the Mellbreak this year had its largest field yet, 44 including 6 ladies"
1. Alan Bowness, CFR, 33-45
2. Willie Gaunt, P&B, 34-21
3. John Wicker, CFR, 35-27
Ladies
27. Penny deMoss (v), Tri-Lake, 46-58
31. C Charlton (v), Keswick, 50-20
39 Jane Ridings (v), U/A, 53-28
Checkpoints
Start/Finish: Loweswater Village Hall - 140201
1. North Summit - 144195
2. South Summit - 148186
3. Valley Track - 140187
So plenty CFR involvement at the sharp end of both races. Does this augur well for their resurrection of at least the long one!?
What about sponsorship from Kirkstile Inn and prizes (and/or a barrel at finish) of Loweswater Gold?
IIRC, those two "Petes" were involved with pacing / supporting Joss on his "All The Wainwrights in Seven Days" jaunt, in 1986.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
I like the look of that Mellbreak shorty. The big one would look something like this...
20m 8850', you could spend ages finding lines on a route like that.
Attachment 6138
Thanks for plotting it. Looks like another "Classic"
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside
Thanks for the info Oscar, I thought the route was something like that but I wasn't sure and it's great having a bit of the history of this race.
As for the route I'd love to include the ascent up Whiteside & Hopegill head - it only adds a little more climb and some more great running. I think the actual route will probably depend on the permissions, which will be the first job for anyone taking this on (I've got good feedback so far from the club). You'll see that there is a fair bit in common with the TWA, and Steve & Wynn have included Whiteless pike & High Snockrigg to get to Robinson, I'm not sure if that was stipulated to them or they did that by choice.
As for the descent of Melbreak it would come off from the south top to the track - the descent off the end would be rather hairy! (It a very easy scramble coming up & makes a good race route but would be a bit much on the way down).
We did that one last year as a club championship (although with the third checkpoint right at the end so you carry on heading South off of South top to about 148178.) and a club run this year - it is a good one. We also did a race (and another club run this year - we do like these fells!) over the two tops and then over Hen comb and back to the pub. That is a killer ascent up Hen Comb.Quote:
I like the look of that Mellbreak shorty.
One of the two accounts posted from the Dark Peak mag (the earlier, I think) did head up Whiteside to start and then round to Grassmoor, so I think you can claim that as the original route. I agree, lots of good running in that.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemming
You lakes runners are having all the fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemming
You could run the Mellbreak race while the long one is going on, like the "short" Duddon takes place during the long race, the Dungeon Ghyll during the Old County tops and the Anni Waltz during the Teenager race. I'm a big fan of having a short alternative at the long races and have considered the possibility of organising a Scafell race during the Wasdale, or resurrecting the Gunson Knott race to be run in conjunction with the Great Lakes Run.
We had a cracking day out in the clag yesterday doing the "out" leg but had to come back via Fleetwith and along the lakesides due to time constraints (10 minutes late picking up the boss at Windermere station nevertheless but she was happy enough). What a brilliant route - I've linked the south side all sorts of ways over the years but never done the Whiteside - Dalehead section that way and it was quite tricky in parts with dreadful vis, map and compass in hand and taking some off piste direct lines to find the best of the bogs. Very nice to romp down Dalehead instead of crawling up on a Borrowdale :-) I really hope the race gets resurrected, it's a classic line and fully as evil as the Wasdale. And if you could see more than 10 yards there's some of the finest views in the Lakes to be had. At one point I said "I bet the Duddon's carnage in this today" and judging from the thread I wasn't far off the mark :-)
Please get this race back in the calendar and I'll promise to help out on one of your others
P
Sounds ace Paulo I'm determined to get this race resurrected too, but we'll Have to wait and see what the CFR chaps say first. Any news from your end lads?Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo
Dan/Paulo,
Our meeting is tomorrow when we'll have a full discussion on it - but I've had positive feedback so far, and am very keen to get this going myself.
Great stuff keep us posted!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemming
We're on for it!!:thumbup: First job willl be permissions so there may be a delay in any update - actually first job will be recovering from the Great Lakes so there will definitely be a delay! Really hope it will be in the next Fixtures calendar. We talked about the Mellbreak two tops so the intention is also to include that - but the main focus will be the full horseshoe. Not sure when in the year it will be - end of June was discussed as an option - any thoughts?
Excellent news - I'm sure it'll be an instant classic. June sounds good to ensure nice weather :w00t: Or late August between Borrowdale and Three Shires?? Thanks for your ongoing efforts
Cheers Paul
This is the best thread I've read in ages! I love the way it's evolved and ended up with some really exciting news!
Also, the 1985 DPFR report of the race is very funny. I laughed out loud at the Joss Naylor "pussyfooting" bit :D . The old DPFR newsletters, available on the website are well worth a look back at, they're very entertaining.