new tarmac on old lanes

I'm a sometime fell runner (and also horse rider and mountain-biking widow) in the Peak District and thought this might interest some of you. Somebody has taken it upon themselves to lay tarmac on part of what now gets called the Black Harry Trails, in between Calver and Stoney Middleton - the track in question forms part of the Calver fell race. On finding out about this random stretch of tarmac - about 1km of the stuff - I emailed the PD authority - assuming they were at least in part responsible. I got a reply saying they neither did it nor authorised it - and neither did the Highways Authority. They 'suspect' they know who did, but aren't sure. Someone in the planning dept is going to get back to me - though what they're going to say I don't know. You're probably aware of the ongoing issues around green lanes, boats, trial bikes and 4-wheel drives etc etc. and also difficulties faced by farmers. It's all very complex - and I have no idea who laid this tarmac nor why. But I do feel strongly that people can't just go round doing stuff like this - there's a reason we have national park authorities and planning rules etc. I guess I'm posting to make people aware that this has happened - changes you see might not have been authorised or made by those entitled to make them - and to encourage people to keep an eye out, to report, to complain, and to play a role in protecting this beautiful place we love. cheers.

Your not the only one who's unhappy about this. Watch out for a route change for the Calver race this year, nothing major but appreciate people don't want to run on the nasty black stuff, not definite but being discussed. Details on www.calverpeak.co.uk as soon as we know.

Personally I don't hold out much hope of the PDA doing much, they stopped the quarrying (or the economy did) but they failed to protect the environment or get the landscape restored to how it was before the illegal operations.

I looked at the fell race site to see if they were changing it. glad that they're aware. any theory on by who/why it's been done? I haven't actually seen it - was my other half - and he can see no logical reason for anyone to have done it. it starts and ends in 4wd-only territory - so it hasn't particularly improved access for anyone. very strange. the first email I got was pretty uniformative - we didn't do it so we can't answer your questions. I pushed for more with a follow up email and got a bit more - will wait and see if anyone gets back to me.

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Originally Posted by hat

I looked at the fell race site to see if they were changing it. glad that they're aware. any theory on by who/why it's been done? I haven't actually seen it - was my other half - and he can see no logical reason for anyone to have done it. it starts and ends in 4wd-only territory - so it hasn't particularly improved access for anyone. very strange. the first email I got was pretty uniformative - we didn't do it so we can't answer your questions. I pushed for more with a follow up email and got a bit more - will wait and see if anyone gets back to me.

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I thought the point was to make it boring for 4x4ers... to stop them going there...

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Originally Posted by IainR

I thought the point was to make it boring for 4x4ers... to stop them going there...

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That will be exactly it. An anti 4x4er will have taken the law into their own hands maybe?

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Originally Posted by Stolly

That will be exactly it. An anti 4x4er will have taken the law into their own hands maybe?

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Well laying tarmac costs quite a bit and even if the thickness is only 100mm then for a kilometre it's going to be in the several tens of thousands. Quite a statement to make if you just want to stop 4x4ers.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

That will be exactly it. An anti 4x4er will have taken the law into their own hands maybe?

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The PDA have done similar approaches else where.. well I presume it was them, not with tarmac but rubble to make 4x4ing boring.. Totley moss..

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Originally Posted by Bob

Well laying tarmac costs quite a bit and even if the thickness is only 100mm then for a kilometre it's going to be in the several tens of thousands. Quite a statement to make if you just want to stop 4x4ers.

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Yeh you're ptrobably right but a stated aim of the Friends of the Peak District seems to be to "improve the condition of legally used routes" and tarmacking does that for sure I guess. I'm betting that some of these action groups have some money to spend.

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Originally Posted by Bob

thickness is only 100mm then for a kilometre.

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that will be 3 15/16" per mile around here, thank you very much.

thanks for the replies - food for thought.

Whose the landowner, some very well to do types might do such a thing

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.u...0c6McFQFXD8tu/

I wish someone would put tarmac in the actual roads, which are full of pot holes!!

Won't be long before they paint some double yellow lines on them as well :rolleyes:

Just what I was thinking!

I have a huge pothole on the road opposite my off street parking... People are avoiding it, driving onto my humble parking spot and have eroded the gravel so much, it being wet and muddy doesn't help, that I could no longer get my car in and out... I have had to have a tonne of hardcore dumped at vast cost.

Having complained to the council about the hole, which frankly, is pretty lethal, their response was: it has been reported before, however, it doesn't fall under our description of what consitutes a pothole, as it isn't wide enough :w00t:

Well, I am not exaggerating if I say it is about 30 cms deep and 70 cms long, but indeed, 'only' about 40 cms wide...

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Originally Posted by Longdogs

I wish someone would put tarmac in the actual roads, which are full of pot holes!!

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Get out there and make it a bit wider.

Good thinking :) I have also been eying up those traffic cones they put up at roadworks, with a light on top... Going to borrow/relocate one and stick it right in the middle of the potholoe, then send the council the bill for the re-surfacing of my parking!

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Originally Posted by bigfella

Get out there and make it a bit wider.

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Originally Posted by Hanneke

Just what I was thinking!

I have a huge pothole on the road opposite my off street parking... People are avoiding it, driving onto my humble parking spot and have eroded the gravel so much, it being wet and muddy doesn't help, that I could no longer get my car in and out... I have had to have a tonne of hardcore dumped at vast cost.

Having complained to the council about the hole, which frankly, is pretty lethal, their response was: it has been reported before, however, it doesn't fall under our description of what consitutes a pothole, as it isn't wide enough :w00t:

Well, I am not exaggerating if I say it is about 30 cms deep and 70 cms long, but indeed, 'only' about 40 cms wide...

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I'm sure i'm correct it saying that if you report you've had an accident because your bike fell in to the hole they have 24 hours to fix it. If you then have another accident they are liable. I'm sure theres a website some where where you can post whats been reported so if they don't fix it....

They've been resurfacing my single track road for over 2 weeks. They come at random times of day and night, do odd bits, never tell you when they're coming, or put signs up to say they're coming then don't... Last sat they started a pneumatic drill and jcb outside mine and my neighbours bedroom windows at 6am. By lunchtime they'd gone, leaving a 50 foot long hole in the road surrounded by cones which are still there! You have no idea when you go out whether you'll be able to drive down your road, or have to do a 7 mile detour, or not get home. I am not a happy bunny.. decamping to Manchester tomorrow til monday in the hope they'll have it sorted by then. Rant over.. thanks

With the state of the roads following years of under investment, a series of extreme winters and very limited resources the councils have to prioritize. However, if you REALLY feel a specific pothole is dangerous, then you need to keep the pressure on them. Report it to your local council (by phone, NOT e-maiL), tell them that although it may not be if not a Category One Pothole (most councils will define these on their website), it is dangerous to two wheeled vehicles, due to location, specific shape etc. Ask them for a reference number and when they intend to inspect it. Then follow it up, ask to speak too the technician who inspected it and get a date of it to be repaired. If that is not satisfactory, ask them for their complaints procedure and again, follow it up. I guarantee by the time it gets to a Level 2 complaint you will see action!
Another good place to report them is here (but its not as effective as the above):
http://www.fillthathole.org.uk/

well they have decided to make the whole of the c2c tarmac i wish they would bugger off now i will have to find alternative sunday morning route as they have just tarmac,d another 10 mile of it

I fractured my elbow crashing the bike in a not dissimilar pothole a couple of years ago. I got the same excuse: it isn't a pothole, it isn't wide enough/big enough/deep enough. That was that! Now I haven't actually broken anything in it, not sure about other people... but I doubt they do anything at all... if they think fracturing your elbow isn't bad enough...

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Originally Posted by stumpy

With the state of the roads following years of under investment, a series of extreme winters and very limited resources the councils have to prioritize. However, if you REALLY feel a specific pothole is dangerous, then you need to keep the pressure on them. Report it to your local council (by phone, NOT e-maiL), tell them that although it may not be if not a Category One Pothole (most councils will define these on their website), it is dangerous to two wheeled vehicles, due to location, specific shape etc. Ask them for a reference number and when they intend to inspect it. Then follow it up, ask to speak too the technician who inspected it and get a date of it to be repaired. If that is not satisfactory, ask them for their complaints procedure and again, follow it up. I guarantee by the time it gets to a Level 2 complaint you will see action!
Another good place to report them is here (but its not as effective as the above):
http://www.fillthathole.org.uk/

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The real problem is most of the people making the decisions don't ride bikes, and either don't understand or don't care about cyclists. If they get an insurance claim for a few pairs of shock absorbers or a damaged wheel then they start to take notice. May be talk to claims direct Hanneke and threaten them with the lawyers! If you can prove its been reported as dangerous, they've done nothing and then someone has had an accident, they are on dodgy ground whether or not it meets their spec....

vespa - I bet it was classed as an improvement as well! keep tarmaccroads well tarmacced and leave the off-road stuff alone I say!

The tally for me in the car this year: one tyre with broken casing, one pinch puncture and the suspension on the drivers side gone, all due to potholes on my local lanes. Main problem being when it is flooded you cannot see the holes... Everyone here has the same problems, we all complain, the council does F-all...

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Originally Posted by stumpy

The real problem is most of the people making the decisions don't ride bikes, and either don't understand or don't care about cyclists. If they get an insurance claim for a few pairs of shock absorbers or a damaged wheel then they start to take notice. May be talk to claims direct Hanneke and threaten them with the lawyers! If you can prove its been reported as dangerous, they've done nothing and then someone has had an accident, they are on dodgy ground whether or not it meets their spec....

vespa - I bet it was classed as an improvement as well! keep tarmaccroads well tarmacced and leave the off-road stuff alone I say!

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Have you made a claim against them? If they haven't followed their procedures to the letter then chances are you'l win....

I didn't know you could, so didn't actually record where, what time etc and didn't take photo's or measurements of the pothole in question. However, someone must have done something, because the pothole that broke my suspension has now been filled. The one that broke my tyre is still there, so I could photograph and measure it. It has a drain hole cover sticking up its corner, which broke the tyre casing... I have got the bill from the garage still, but no photo's of the broken tyre.

At least having looked at your links, I now know what to do for the next one!

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Originally Posted by stumpy

Have you made a claim against them? If they haven't followed their procedures to the letter then chances are you'l win....

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VOLUNTEERS NEEDED

FOR THIS tHURSDAY

What?- WORK PARTY & LEARNING OPP. ‘Upland Footpath Construction Day’ - Join National Trust Upland Footpath team for the day and learn how recreational use of the fells is managed to reduce impacts in a ‘hands on’ day fixing footpaths. The aim is not only to help fix the fell, but to learn how issues are managed so that you can share this knowledge, particularly relevant for those who work with groups or who organise challenge events.

The location of the fell day will be on the top of Stake Pass, in the Langdales, there are several work options and a variety of construction methods to look at. It will also give you a taste of some of the ongoing volunteering work you can signpost other individuals and groups towards. Waterproofs and boots provided.

FREE but places limited. Booking Essential. Phone Windermere Reflections office, or email Amanda, before 5pm on Weds 3^rd April to book on and let us know your boot size and a mobile phone number which we can contact you on on the day.

We will reply by email or phone you to confirm your place is booked.

When? –Thursday 4^th April

Where? –The meeting place is Old Dungeon Ghyll car park, Langdale at 9am, with the day finishing by 4pm. Don’t forget your packed lunch!

Luke Sherwen, National Trust Ranger, is arranging the day and will let you know any further details required and a contact number for if plans change on the day.


Contact –Phone or email Amanda Hancock tel; 015394 34401 [email protected]

Yes I could have started a new thread, but because of the short notice I thought it easier to link to this and bring the topic back to the fells!

This might be a bit random but i saw the title of this thread and thought i'd post it here. Just a quick rant really : I live on the Wirral on the edge of the Dee Estuary and when i can't get over to the Clwydians (about half an hour away) for training runs i tend to run from home along the estuary paths and out on to the marshes. Last week they laid flat, smooth tarmac along the full length of the best off road track near my house!! Aside from my completely selfish complaints about losing ideal offroad running tracks near my house, i have no idea how the council can justify the expense when they are apparently making a third of their staff redundant and i can't see how the tarmac makes it any safer for dog walkers or how it really benefits anyone!? rant over...
Tid

That must be very frustrating Tid, and sounds a complete waste of money as you say!

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Originally Posted by Tid

This might be a bit random but i saw the title of this thread and thought i'd post it here. Just a quick rant really : I live on the Wirral on the edge of the Dee Estuary and when i can't get over to the Clwydians (about half an hour away) for training runs i tend to run from home along the estuary paths and out on to the marshes. Last week they laid flat, smooth tarmac along the full length of the best off road track near my house!! Aside from my completely selfish complaints about losing ideal offroad running tracks near my house, i have no idea how the council can justify the expense when they are apparently making a third of their staff redundant and i can't see how the tarmac makes it any safer for dog walkers or how it really benefits anyone!? rant over...
Tid

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Hi Tid

I think it's part of the new Sustrans 568 cycle route Neston to Deeside, which I have to admit has made a lot of people in my work place very happy that they can now bike to work safely, and keeps a few cars off the road too

http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshir...e-Route-Latest

Denbighshire CC spent a week recently starting to lay tarmac from the Western gate into the country park by Llangynhafal. What they were up to goodness knows but they gave up after about 50 yards. Having said that it looks like they're rebuilding the Jubilee Tower!

Bringing this thread full circle, the Calver Peak race route has been changed to avoid most of the newly tarmaced track. The new route will follow the continuation of the sheep trod after the quarries running downhill parallel to the track then crossing the track and taking a path before joining the original steep uphill section part way up. The new map is available here http://www.calverpeak.co.uk/map.html although there may still be some fine tuning required. I suspect the tarmac track will be out of bounds as it may well be quicker for those so inclined.