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Fell races, what are they?
After reading some comments on the Edale Skyline thread it seemed to me that there is an interesting discussion to be had about what a fell race actually is. and should be considered to be...
Obviously a quick scan through the fixtures book reveal a huge variety of different events. differing length, height, terrain and time of year all adding fantastic variety to the 'fell racing year'
So I wonder? Is it a fully marked sprint up and back down again, back in the beer tent by lunchtime or is it a prolonged battle through terrain, weather and navigating through clag. I realise that it all of these, and probably all of these at once!
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanFitz
...a huge variety of different events. differing length, height, terrain and time of year all adding fantastic variety...
..and different people with different preferences, often with a tendency to say that our own favourite races somehow require greater athleticism and prowess.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Right, first person to mention the PPP gets their tyres slashed.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mr brightside
Right, first person to mention the PPP gets their tyres slashed.
Trail race, so unlikely to get mentioned on this thread :closed:
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LissaJous
..and different people with different preferences, often with a tendency to say that our own favourite races somehow require greater athleticism and prowess.
That's a good point LJ. But having studied the calendar over many years, and taking several criteria into account... the best fell race (by 310 points from its nearest rival, on the dunstall-radley amended scale) is the Cat and Fiddle down-and-up fell relay.
I was as surprised as anyone, but there's no disputing the results.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Best example of a fell race I can think of, one that really stands out....Buttermere Sailbeck. Difficult, rough and gnarly, but with some amazing running and views! Those 10 miles encapsulate everything that makes me love running on the fell.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Personally I've always been better at steep climbs and descents with rough ground so my perfect race (from a doing the best in the results point of view) would have been something like the kinder dozen in filthy conditions!
hmm, I might just try to put that on as a race. Sounds ace!
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
I would consider a race being simply an event where competition is involved. Regardless of terrain, weather, ascent etc.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Derby Tup
Trail race, so unlikely to get mentioned on this thread :closed:
haha, love it.
can of worms. open, right there. Although guessing that may have been discussed once or twice before...
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MickTor
I would consider a race being simply an event where competition is involved. Regardless of terrain, weather, ascent etc.
Aberystwyth Parkrun is definitely (98%) on tomorrow morning :)
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mr brightside
Right, first person to mention the PPP gets their tyres slashed.
LOL :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Derby Tup
Trail race, so unlikely to get mentioned on this thread :closed:
Surely it's 3 short races with a 10k road race thrown in.... :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanFitz
Personally I've always been better at steep climbs and descents with rough ground so my perfect race (from a doing the best in the results point of view) would have been something like the kinder dozen in filthy conditions!
hmm, I might just try to put that on as a race. Sounds ace!
My thought as well but it was actually looked in to 2 years ago but crosses too much sensitive land so no go I'm afraid. I still think it would put some of the lakes races to shame.
Nearest race to it would be the TOP
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
If Fell racing didn't have the variety of conditions, terrain, landscapes and people that it does, it might as well just be road running.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noel
That's a good point LJ. But having studied the calendar over many years, and taking several criteria into account... the best fell race (by 310 points from its nearest rival, on the dunstall-radley amended scale) is the Cat and Fiddle down-and-up fell relay.
I was as surprised as anyone, but there's no disputing the results.
I fear you have not taken into account Penegar's Principle of Congruence. The Dunstall- Radley scale is a binary based system as I'm sure you are aware of.
According to my calculations the Barnstonethwaite Hobble made famous by fell running legend big Ron "Nudger" Nudgington comes up with a score of 311 or 1101011101 in your system.
Sorry to be pedantic about this but I feel you need to be aware of this fact.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanFitz
After reading some comments on the Edale Skyline thread it seemed to me that there is an interesting discussion to be had about what a fell race actually is. and should be considered to be...
Obviously a quick scan through the fixtures book reveal a huge variety of different events. differing length, height, terrain and time of year all adding fantastic variety to the 'fell racing year'
So I wonder? Is it a fully marked sprint up and back down again, back in the beer tent by lunchtime or is it a prolonged battle through terrain, weather and navigating through clag. I realise that it all of these, and probably all of these at once!
As defined by wikipedia :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fell_running
My own definition is a great blast with a like minded group of people over challenging terrain in whatever conditions prevail.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Run many of them, and a few trail races, not got a clue what they are, but enjoyed every single one and thanks to all the organisers and marshals and everyone involved in putting them together. Great atmosphere as well, it's only on here that everyone gets an opinion and starts arguing and name calling, pretty fecking childish, I am, of course, a grown up :rolleyes:
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mr brightside
Right, first person to mention the PPP gets their tyres slashed.
Check your tyres mate, you were the first;)
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Who cares....! Stop with the distractions already, get back over to the Edale thread there's a big fight breaking out. :). :)
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fairyfeet
Who cares....! Stop with the distractions already, get back over to the Edale thread there's a big fight breaking out. :). :)
It's only bumbags at dawn Fairyfeet;)
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fairyfeet
Who cares....! Stop with the distractions already, get back over to the Edale thread there's a big fight breaking out. :). :)
Hmm. You may just have stumbled across the reason I started this one...
that or razor-sharp intuition.
most likely the latter!
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanFitz
After reading some comments on the Edale Skyline thread it seemed to me that there is an interesting discussion to be had about what a fell race actually is. and should be considered to be...
Obviously a quick scan through the fixtures book reveal a huge variety of different events. differing length, height, terrain and time of year all adding fantastic variety to the 'fell racing year'
So I wonder? Is it a fully marked sprint up and back down again, back in the beer tent by lunchtime or is it a prolonged battle through terrain, weather and navigating through clag. I realise that it all of these, and probably all of these at once!
I can't see why the fuss is happening.. but dammed if you do dammed if you don't..
whether its a championship race is for the FRA to decide.. personally I'd be dissapointed if the race was ran and it was removed from the championship.. but regardless thats not your focus.
I love running in bad conditions, so if doing it, would want the race on. I can understand thoughts to cancel due to safety concerns, pressure on local infrastructure etc; actual safety on the hill doesn't concern me much TBH, its a fell race, at the end of winter, its also a very escapable fell race. As you mentioned people should be trusted to make their own decisions.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IainR
I love running in bad conditions, so if doing it, would want the race on. I can understand thoughts to cancel due to safety concerns, pressure on local infrastructure etc; actual safety on the hill doesn't concern me much TBH, its a fell race, at the end of winter, its also a very escapable fell race. As you mentioned people should be trusted to make their own decisions.
my thoughts were going to be for the marshalls safety. Can you imaging being on Grindslow for 3 hours or Mam Tor or RR stood still. You'd need a very good tent to stand up to the forecasted winds
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
A tough decision made, and probably the right one.
Snow underfoot would be nice, but a blocked valley is another thing.
If the conditions in Hillsborough are anything to go by we'd be looking at 5 hours as a winning time I reckon, meaning Marshalls out for the best part of the day.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanDarkpeak
my thoughts were going to be for the marshalls safety. Can you imaging being on Grindslow for 3 hours or Mam Tor or RR stood still. You'd need a very good tent to stand up to the forecasted winds
I was rather looking forward to my stint on Grindslow Knoll. It was the magic carpet necessary to get me there that was a bit of a concern.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Good to note, though, that Ian F's diversionary thread has itself been re-diverted.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Clough
I fear you have not taken into account Penegar's Principle of Congruence. The Dunstall- Radley scale is a binary based system as I'm sure you are aware of.
According to my calculations the Barnstonethwaite Hobble made famous by fell running legend big Ron "Nudger" Nudgington comes up with a score of 311 or 1101011101 in your system.
Sorry to be pedantic about this but I feel you need to be aware of this fact.
I don't hold with these new-fangled systems. I'm still using hexadecimal, like the Babylonian fell gods intended.
But you're right, Barnstonethwaite was a great race. I used to do it in the early days when you started barefoot and had to run to your shoes and then put them on before setting off up the hill.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Clough
I fear you have not taken into account Penegar's Principle of Congruence. The Dunstall- Radley scale is a binary based system as I'm sure you are aware of.
According to my calculations the Barnstonethwaite Hobble made famous by fell running legend big Ron "Nudger" Nudgington comes up with a score of 311 or 1101011101 in your system.
Sorry to be pedantic about this but I feel you need to be aware of this fact.
By 'eck, there's some googling to be done there.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noel
I don't hold with these new-fangled systems. I'm still using hexadecimal, like the Babylonian fell gods intended.
But you're right, Barnstonethwaite was a great race. I used to do it in the early days when you started barefoot and had to run to your shoes and then put them on before setting off up the hill.
you had shoes? you were lucky? :)
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanDarkpeak
my thoughts were going to be for the marshalls safety. Can you imaging being on Grindslow for 3 hours or Mam Tor or RR stood still. You'd need a very good tent to stand up to the forecasted winds
I assumed they'd be tented up, like on the High Peak Marathon? I like those races where you run up to a tend, someones head sticks out.. you shout a number.. say thanks of course.. and run off.. just seems to make it more comical and arbitrary..
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IainR
I assumed they'd be tented up, like on the High Peak Marathon? I like those races where you run up to a tend, someones head sticks out.. you shout a number.. say thanks of course.. and run off.. just seems to make it more comical and arbitrary..
most would Iain but the forecast was for gusts of 65mph, most are exposed spots even if every one had a serious mountain tent and they were able to pitch it in those conditions.
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanFitz
Personally I've always been better at steep climbs and descents with rough ground so my perfect race (from a doing the best in the results point of view) would have been something like the kinder dozen in filthy conditions!
hmm, I might just try to put that on as a race. Sounds ace!
Now you're talking!
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Re: Fell races, what are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanDarkpeak
most would Iain but the forecast was for gusts of 65mph, most are exposed spots even if every one had a serious mountain tent and they were able to pitch it in those conditions.
Didn't realise the winds as well. But my main point is fell running is about mountain sense.. so runners should be able to tough out and cope in bad weather..
Going back to the old Peris.. it was just cloudy and raining... even the organiser said 'winds were gusting at 40 mph'.. which people who have experience know isn't that severe.. for me about 50 it gets an issue, above 60 a real issue, above 70-80 and being out is a huge issue..
Sweaty was it? mentioned that runners would have to follow each other due to drifts.. but that happens anyway, both peris and 1000m peaks records were set by people following CD weren't they.. its just tactics..
I was thinking today, I was out in pretty horrifically cold weather, but I could keep moving.. snow wasn't that deep and it was pretty compacted due to skiiers.. so I could keep running and keep warm. So I'd have raced in such situations. We did Ras Yr Aran, 2008? in similar conditions, it was shortened wisely as the summit cone would have been lethal, but roads were clear, so the race went ahead.
Marshalls are worth considering as they are sedentary, I just think runners out on the actual run should be trusted, like at the great lakes, and as Ian said... (other one).. if you don't think you can get around, don't run.. that puts it onto the runner to take personal responsibility. Its why I'm against arbitrary shortening or cancelling for just moderately bad weather. It creates the mindset of 'well the race is on, therefore its safe to run'.. it creates false security, removes personal responsibility, but also what is safe conditions for one person, is not safe for another and we shouldn't reduce fell running to the lowest common denominator... I know thats elitist.. I am.. :-)
TBH though I do think RO's have to cave into MRT's whether they agree or not.. its just too risky to go against them. Was it Wasdale where the MRT called it off? I think Ras Yr Aran today was similar.. you can imagine the press if someone had an accident, after the local MRT had actually come out and advised to call it off... which is rare as they almost always come from a risk taking sport like climbing, mountaineering, fell running, so undertstand what we want.
I don't think Ian had much choice today, there's bad weather.. snow.. but this was a pretty extreme dump for March..
