Pendle Fell Race 6th APRIL

Our juniors are asking about race routes so I've asked David Bailey to supply a map which is below BUT;

There's a slight alteration to the route for u12 and above. There's a new fence across the field to the south (left) of Buttock Farm, where the route usually goes. The map actually shows two fences already but they haven't really existed for years, until now.

Because of this fence, the route will now go to a small stile just before the farm and pass to the north (right) of the farm, rejoining the original route (as marked on the map) at the fell gate GR807401 (just by the first t of Buttock!). I'm assuming the u12 turnaround will be around or just before the stile but don't quote me on that one.

The maps on display on the day will show the new route

Hope to see lots of you there; there'll be more grass on this one!

OLD MAP
Attachment 6889

Some of our juniors went expecting the age criteria to be age on the day and running in the under14s but apparently it was age as of 1st jan so they missed the under 12s race. I didn't notice anywhere where it said age as of 1st Jan which is the criteria for champs races, we used age on the day at Liver hill on Tuesday. I've had some pretty upset parents contacting me, it's a poor situation to say the very least and confusing for lots of parents and kids.

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Originally Posted by Lefty

I didn't notice anywhere where it said age as of 1st Jan which is the criteria for champs races, we used age on the day at Liver hill on Tuesday. I've had some pretty upset parents contacting me, it's a poor situation to say the very least and confusing for lots of parents and kids.

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i was pretty critical following the rivington pike race last weekend and i have to say that this weekend was the exact opposite.. easy to find start, well marked routes, loads of maps, hunderds of entry forms a massive box of pens and above that table on orange A4 sheets of cardboard stuck on the wall between the maps showing the junior routes..'' age as on 01/01/13''

specsavers?

big acknowledgements to the organisers who coped with hundreds literally more entries than they expected.. well done!

http://www.ukresults.net/2013/pendu12.html

Juniors results via links at top.

No doubt there'll be a debrief on the age info / it should have been made clear in advance, as WP and others have previously commented? A standard line in the online race info would do it (Age is age on ..), and also on the entry forms as I have once suggested on here, but I'm not the one making those decisions.

It was Age as of 1st Jan - but let's not go down the route of what is clear - the old way was clearer for ROs as well as the athletes.

Anyway it was a great day, fantastic effort again by David and Clayton and thanks from Lancs AA for allowing us to piggy back the race again for our champs. Hopefully we'll be back again next year.

It's needs to be made completely clear beforehand which criteria the race organiser has chosen as LissaJous has noted. What's the point in parents turning up only to find they have missed the race they were expecting their child to run in. I suppose there is a point to be made to patents to turn up in time for all eventualities but its difficult enough at times to try to encourage parents to travel to races without placing obstacles in their way. Here's a plea to Junior race organisers ( and the Fra junior committee to note ) to clearly and well in advance inform everyone whether its age as of 1st Jan or age on the day. As for Pendle where was stated beforehand which criteria was being used.

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Originally Posted by Lefty

As for Pendle where was stated beforehand which criteria was being used.

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you REALLY need specsavers... i think my post stated clearly where the age criteria was... through out the winter and spring its been as clear as a freshly washed window buffed with windowlene what the criteria for races are.. if my 8yr old can discuss the finer points of individual races, championships and BoFRA are then its not rocket science

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Originally Posted by Lefty

It's needs to be made completely clear beforehand which criteria the race organiser has chosen as LissaJous has noted. What's the point in parents turning up only to find they have missed the race they were expecting their child to run in. I suppose there is a point to be made to patents to turn up in time for all eventualities but its difficult enough at times to try to encourage parents to travel to races without placing obstacles in their way. Here's a plea to Junior race organisers ( and the Fra junior committee to note ) to clearly and well in advance inform everyone whether its age as of 1st Jan or age on the day. As for Pendle where was stated beforehand which criteria was being used.

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I'm not sure Lefty whether you are saying it was stated or not. David is the RO but I offer a little back up by setting up the info on www.ukresults.net which is mentioned on the calendar entry.
Junior age cats determined as at midnight 31/12/12 to 1/1/13
This is on the info on the website summary info and on the PDF info sheet that has now been replaced by the results link which spelt out the age criteria for all categories, so no one should really have been unclear.

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Originally Posted by Lefty

... we used age on the day at Liver hill on Tuesday.....

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Why Graham? Have you always used AOD or was it a new introduction?

I'm sure the vast majority of junior races have always used age on 1st Jan (but correct me if that's untrue) which allows juniors to compete against the same runners throughout the season; I'm not just talking champs races, even juniors within one club like to compete against each other. In the absence of a coherent standard I'd assume all race were age on 1st Jan unless proved otherwise. It seems a simple system and it baffles me why people are so opposed to mandating across all FRA registered events.

This is an example of the kind of confusion that the FRA organisers assured us last year wouldn't happen, that the clarification of the age v distance rules wouldn't cause. It's because of the FRA's failure to grasp the nettle and impose a mandatory system that this sort of thing happens and will happen again and again this season. Several of us implored the FRA to fix the problem and were ignored as troublemakers.

I distinctly remember one RO, not a million miles away, reassuring me that it was all a fuss over nothing and everything would be ok; I wonder if you still think that, Graham?

Anyway, back to the Race!

Well done to all the juniors who took part in perfect conditions today. I saw lots of happy faces and very few upset faces; the main criteria I use when judging success in junior racing! My heart went out to a little lad running for Mercia who was audibly distressed as he passed my marshalling point at the fell gate. He got a lot of encouragement from the spectators and seemed more composed on the way back down. I sincerely hope that he wasn't pushed into doing this race against his will and that we see him again.

Well done everyone, see you again next year!:D

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I'm not sure Lefty whether you are saying it was stated or not. David is the RO but I offer a little back up by setting up the info on www.ukresults.net which is mentioned on the calendar entry.
Junior age cats determined as at midnight 31/12/12 to 1/1/13
This is on the info on the website summary info and on the PDF info sheet that has now been replaced by the results link which spelt out the age criteria for all categories, so no one should really have been unclear.

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I have since checked on the link to uk results and sure enough Richard it does clearly state the age criteria for Pendle which obviously some parents have not seen. As for the comment by withaY your post does indeed as you say clearly state where the age criteria was shown on the day ( A4 sheets of cardboard stuck on the wall ) you obviously misunderstood my post asking for age criteria to be made well clear beforehand and in advance ( it was I now admit done so for this race ) Different race organisers are using different age criteria, it's clear for the Fra champs, not so for lots of other Junior races.

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Originally Posted by Lefty

I have since checked on the link to uk results and sure enough Richard it does clearly state the age criteria for Pendle which obviously some parents have not seen. As for the comment by withaY your post does indeed as you say clearly state where the age criteria was shown on the day ( A4 sheets of cardboard stuck on the wall ) you obviously misunderstood my post asking for age criteria to be made well clear beforehand and in advance ( it was I now admit done so for this race ) Different race organisers are using different age criteria, it's clear for the Fra champs, not so for lots of other Junior races.

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I'm not clear what confusion there was though today. I wasn't RO but I was around from 10:00 until the death and never heard a complaint. I was aware that one U10 who made up 10 in Feb incorrectly entered the U12s race (as if AOD) but they did realise in time, ran in the correct race and it was sorted.

Andy - as has been pointed out in the debate last year, there was never anything in the rules about junior age categories being age on 1/1. It was more of a precedent that had developed because FRA Champs and County Champs used age on 1/1 and it became an adopted standard.
Some races followed their own systems and that was allowed so long as the athletes didn't run over distance and breach rule 10. But I would guess that more than 90% followed age on day.

What is clear already because of queries at Rivington and Pendle is that there is now confusion and it would have been better to mandate 1/1/13 and adopt an age category system that follows the UKA XC rules structure.

I just think that all parents need to be warned that age dates vary between races. As richard says age on 1st jan is the most common so I am surprised that people got caught out by that.

The largest junior fields are probably BOFRA which has different age dates, and then you get a few BOFRA type races but which aren't, like Kinsey, that are age on day.

I'm a junior coach myself and have three kids who ran all sorts of fell races so I appreciate that it can be confusing.

dont forget that races are independently organised. This probably needs explaining to parents as well because some think that are paid people organising everything for their kids ( and that coaches are paid).

I turn up to every junior race with my son BEFORE the start of the 1st race. I've had him competing in under 12's one week & under 14's the next. No problem as far as I'm concerned. Like the weather, expect the unexpected. But let's not criticise the race organisers. I thought everything was clear & meticulous on the day. Many thanks to Clayton-Le-Moors Harriers, we had a cracking morning out.

I wasn't there today (clashed with a family event, and some urgent repairs to our boundary fence), but good to hear everyone had a fab time at the feeding trough.
I cant see what the fuss is all about?
I thought the new season's simplified rules had got rid of last season's pantomime?
:closed:

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Originally Posted by OB1

I thought the new season's simplified rules had got rid of last season's pantomime?
:closed:

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Explain last season's pantomime please.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Explain last season's pantomime please.

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Sorry, wrong smiley, :closed: should have been a :rolleyes:.
I suppose the rhetorical question is whether the new set of rules (post Rule 10 change) taken altogether are 'more of' or are they 'less of' a pantomime than the old set?
I'll just say that as clarification / explanation, and quit, not wanting to spoil a race thread or regurgitate a debate that was done to death on the 'age limits' thread.

I think the lesson learned for me as a coach who tries to encourage kids to race and parents to take them to races is to advise parents to arrive in plenty of time for all eventualities and be aware that age criteria may vary from race to race.I didn't go to the race yesterday but was responding to several confused patents who contacted me. On reflection it's a lesson learned and no criticism of the organiser was intended. The races at Pendle are always well organised and the courses take some beating. I've been organising Fell races since the early sixties and I know the amount of work involved trying to get things right.

The Lancashire Junior Team Title as been won by Rossendale.

The best 3 Male and 3 Female scorers in the U12, U14, U16 and U18 categories count to the junior team award.

This year Rossendale won with 18 points and Clayton were second with 29 points.

Well done to Rossendale who regain the title that they won in 2011 when it was first contested and also congratulations to Clayton who went one better than their 3rd place last year.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

The Lancashire Junior Team Title as been won by Rossendale.

The best 3 Male and 3 Female scorers in the U12, U14, U16 and U18 categories count to the junior team award.

This year Rossendale won with 18 points and Clayton were second with 29 points.

Well done to Rossendale who regain the title that they won in 2011 when it was first contested and also congratulations to Clayton who went one better than their 3rd place last year.

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Lancashire ~ the Best County Fellrunning Champs! :thumbup: Thank you for all the work you put into it WP.

This was a great event and I had checked the age catergories on the race website before we left Nottingham in the same way that I checked the Horwich website before the Rivington races, although still struggled to find a way through the school to register!! Both very different events and great tea and cakes too at Pendle always a bonus. A book club Lefty? I thought it was wine and nibbles at book clubs but I don't go to those!! Looking forward to Todd Crags now which is also age on 1st Jan.

I would like to echo the above, it was a great event enjoyed by all from Ilkley, (both Parents and Juniors). Sat on the side of the hill in glorious sunshine watching some great racing was fantastic.

Thanks to all from Clayton - Le - Moors for a cracking day out.