Help! Descending on scree

I did a 6 mile run over Moel Famau in North Wales this weekend and really loved it, except for the part where I was coming down from the top on sort of shallow scree over rock, and really lost control. I'd been trying to go fast and light with short strides, but ended up careering down nearly falling on my face and having to veer off into the heather to slow myself down enough to stop swearing and panicking. What went wrong? Bad technique, or just loosing my nerve?

Any tips would be really welcome, because the confidence knock really cost me time. Thanks all.

Dunno about improving it, but that looks pretty standard technique amongst the Fell Runners I know ;)

You get good at what you train and race. Do more races with scree.

I know that's not much help - especially in the Peaks. How about:
Try to concentrate on stepping your feet higher on tricky descents - it reduces the chance that you'll catch a toe and trip up.
And here's something that I sometimes do to build up confidence on very steep stuff. On your steepest training descent, try leaping as far forward as you can then slowing yourself down again. This kind of resets your perception of what's scary and makes normal strides on a descent seem less scary. It also reassures you that even when you're travelling much too fast, you're still in control enough to slow yourself down should you need to. This can help if it is in the mind.

Enjoy :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyK

I'd been trying to go fast and light with short strides, but ended up careering down nearly falling on my face and having to veer off into the heather to slow myself down enough to stop swearing and panicking.

---

Isn't that how you are supposed to do it? ;)

Seriously, no substitute for practice and experience really but as noel suggested, pushing the limits on easier stuff in training may at least help when it comes to the real thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyK

I did a 6 mile run over Moel Famau in North Wales this weekend and really loved it, except for the part where I was coming down from the top on sort of shallow scree over rock, and really lost control. I'd been trying to go fast and light with short strides, but ended up careering down nearly falling on my face and having to veer off into the heather to slow myself down enough to stop swearing and panicking. What went wrong? Bad technique, or just loosing my nerve?

Any tips would be really welcome, because the confidence knock really cost me time. Thanks all.

---

I'd say get confident on easier stuff first aswell. One thing i've noticed about scree is that the bigger the lumps are the higher the risk is, lots of little bitty bits are easier to deal with and it doesn't hurt if you fall on your arse either. BTW don't be scared to fall over, it's part of the experience and part of the learning curve. How strong are your hip flexors? I'm sure i'm more stable since hitting the pilates studio and throwing some shapes.

Thanks all, that's useful (and reassuring!). Will keep practicing and play about with stride length and picking up my feet, and scaring myself a bit so I get used to it! That's an interesting thought about my hip flexors too - I really have no idea whether they're any good. Maybe I'll ditch the yoga and try some pilates instead.

Thanks again.

Hi Amy, the secret is OFF.
Brakes off, brain off makes One Fast Fellrunner!!

When I was a fast descender (a long time ago), when that 'losing control' feeling hits, the best thing to do is to relax, spread your arms for balance and just imagine 'flying' down the slope. Its when you tense up that you are more likely to crash. Its amazing how well you subconsciously map the terrain ahead but it only works if you let go. Trust the Force!!

Another thing to bear in mind:-
You can improve your ascending by training; but you can only improve your descending by racing and going head to head with equivalent "nutters" at your level / from your section of the field.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wheeze

Hi Amy, the secret is OFF.
Brakes off, brain off makes One Fast Fellrunner!!

When I was a fast descender (a long time ago), when that 'losing control' feeling hits, the best thing to do is to relax, spread your arms for balance and just imagine 'flying' down the slope. Its when you tense up that you are more likely to crash. Its amazing how well you subconsciously map the terrain ahead but it only works if you let go. Trust the Force!!

---

Very good advice that, but it takes unshakable confidence. I remember at Dunnerdale a few weeks ago i was held up on that gnarly last descent unable to pass a bunch of 3 in front of me. The path took a sharp zig zag around a small rocky lump and i just caught sight of a route and went for it. The chap in front of me slowed up left and i whipped in front of him like a blur and over the rocky lump, two steps later i'd cut in front on the lead runner without touching anyone. It was all over in about 4/5 steps; there was a shout of "Jesus Christ!!" from someone but i'm not sure why. Sometimes it's about allowing your body to travel at terminal velocity and just skipping your feet over whatever's there as weightlessly as possible...like i said it takes some balls though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wheeze

Hi Amy, the secret is OFF.
Brakes off, brain off makes One Fast Fellrunner!!
!!

---

A good recce is recommended prior to this though and especially if you cannot see the full descent from above. I have learnt this to my cost and still have the scars to prove it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wheeze

Trust the Force!!

---

but not on descents to the dark side of the fell.;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mr brightside

Very good advice that, but it takes unshakable confidence. I remember at Dunnerdale a few weeks ago...

---

That reminds me of my other realisation about descending quickly (which was borne out at Dunnerdale):

It's tiring!

So if you want to do well at long descents, you need to be fit enough or fresh enough to have the energy to push. If you're still completely shot after the climb, you won't be able to descend quickly. It's a balancing act - where do you want to gain places? Where do your strengths lie? And where is there the most time to be gained?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

...... "nutters" .........

---

Oy !!!

Haha, thanks all. Being skinny and young-ish, I should probably not be scared of falling over. Am stuck with sh*tty road running at the moment because I've been working late and am currently headtorch-less, but next time I manage to get out I'll see if I can throw the switch to 'off' and just go with it. Really do appreciate the advice/support/warmth/humour here. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyK

Really do appreciate the advice/support/warmth/humour here. :)

---

They're always like that to skinny, young-ish ladies; i'm a skinny, young-ish bloke and i got my arse chewed off ;)

Haha, mr b, I'd not realised they were all so fickle. I retract my praise ;)

Its a tough thing to do in training. You really need the adrenaline and committment of race situation to catch that moment. Mr B's story is so typical! When someone is really flying it is all about skimming over whatever comes up...and as Noel says, you can't do it if really knackered. Although I fancied myself as a good descender in my 30's, I knew I would never be a 'great' descender the time I was passed by a chap who literally flew over the top of me. It was the boulder field coming off Moel Hebog... I was running through the boulders, he was skipping over the top of them! Cajones the size of melons!!

If you are a quick descender when youngish, as you age there is a loss of leg speed. For any very fast descent, whatever is underfoot, the leg has to be out there ready, this ability is lost with age. But also worth considering for yourself, I reckon the more confidence you have the longer your stride. Longer your stride the longer your time "in the air", hence the longer you have to get your leading leg back out in front. It takes nerve, balance etc. keep practising!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyK

Being skinny and young-ish, I should probably not be scared of falling over. Am stuck with sh*tty road running at the moment because I've been working late and am currently headtorch-less, but next time I manage to get out I'll see if I can throw the switch to 'off' and just go with it.

---

Throwing the switch to 'off' when using a head torch may be another way to get the 'feel' of running down a hill fast.

I am not brave enough to attempt this unless it is bright moonlight and I know the hill well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mapper

Oy !!!

---

Oh dear; apologies Mark, I now realise that I should have used a capital "N";).

How improper of me.

Ian Roberts, Bowland FR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

Oh dear; apologies Mark, I now realise that I should have used a capital "N";).

How improper of me.

Ian Roberts, Bowland FR.

---

I'll let you off this time WD :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyK

I did a 6 mile run over Moel Famau in North Wales this weekend and really loved it, except for the part where I was coming down from the top on sort of shallow scree over rock, and really lost control. I'd been trying to go fast and light with short strides, but ended up careering down nearly falling on my face and having to veer off into the heather to slow myself down enough to stop swearing and panicking. What went wrong? Bad technique, or just loosing my nerve?

Any tips would be really welcome, because the confidence knock really cost me time. Thanks all.

---

I have trained there a lot - one of my " local" hills - ie one of the few less than an hour away! Theclwydian hills race goes up that gully you came down,
But IMHO That is a dangerous descent particularly when wet, and not proper scree: the underlying rocks can be very greasy so needs caution - I tiptoe down parts of it sometimes - keeping your weight back clearly important.

There is not a lot of true scree descent on fell races generally, so dont worry too much about scree per se: the borrowdale descent of scafell pike the most obvious example, but that is eminently runnable( although I question whether fell races should damage screes! another question entirely)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alwaysinjured

There is not a lot of true scree descent on fell races generally, so dont worry too much about scree per se: the borrowdale descent of scafell pike the most obvious example, but that is eminently runnable( although I question whether fell races should damage screes! another question entirely)

---

I would also argue that when I ran the Borrowdale race the time I lost by being a bit hesitant on that descent was negligible compared to what I lost by being totally knackered when I reached the Dale Head ascent. I suspect for most of us the biggest gains are to had by focusing on the ascending in our training.