Blencathra Descent Option

We have searched the forum but couldn't find much detail on the Middle Tongue descent which Nicky Spinks recently took off Blencathra.
We are planning a CW route this weekend and from memory the Hall's Fell route was quite a scramble and a couple of wrong turns. The obvious answer is to Recce it but we are travelling from Ireland and won't get the chance to do that.

Could someone give us advice on the fastest/most obvious route down? (Doddick looks a lot longer).

Also we had though of taking the Lords Rake option on Scafell. Is that a good choice ?

We are starting at either 6:30pm or 2:00am on Fri/Sat/Sun depending on weather so hoping to avoid clag!!

Thanks for any opinions
Billy

By all accounts the Middle Tongue (also known as the Parachute) descent needs a recce. Despite Doddick being longer than Hall's Fell it is almost always quicker in descent - no scrambling, runnable all the way.

Lord's Rake - West Wall Traverse is a good option for Scafell. Just watch out for people above you kicking stones down!

Phil Hodgson aka Batman in these here parts is the man for this route.

Dan

In addition to Geoff's response there's the option of starting down the parachute then cutting left on a traverse line to pick up Hall's Fell below the tricky part. I think Baggins on here uses it.

I've done the Parachute descent once following Baggins' directions, there's definitely an element of trust in that it looks so improbable from above. Until you get in to the river bed at the bottom it's continuously steep so you are losing a lot of height very, very quickly. Without a recce I wouldn't attempt it in the dark though with your 2am start option you'd be there in daylight.

The parachute descent starts here - http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X...7661&A=Y&Z=115 and head directly south to pick up the highest beck (stream), it then continues in roughly the same line to the 'n' of "Tongue" before intersecting the next beck at the lowest junction. It then follows this down to Gate Gill, crosses that beck to a path on the true left (eastern side) then about halfway down crosses back to the true right bank and down to the fell gate.

Bill's (Baggins) variation cuts across to Hall's Fell before it reaches the first beck joining the ridge somewhere between the 700m and 750m contours. I've not done this so can't be more precise.

As for Scafell - Lord's Rake, West Wall Traverse and the top bit of Deep Gill is quite loose scrambling. There's an in progress landslip at the top of the first rise of Lord's Rake but it may have stabilised temporarily, i.e. the last five years.

Check the sticky thread about BGR route choices.

You can see a trace of Nicky's route here http://spinks.opentracking.co.uk/ 17 mins top to bottom.

Billy is a serious runner see this result - 7th place in the 50 Km Wicklow Way Ultra.

https://www.imra.ie/events/view/id/1223/

This should be interesting.

Pat is the OS maps not working on strava anymore ?

PS I would love to try the Parachute descent some day. I prefer Halls Fell (as described by Bob, start with Parachute and then left after couple of metres to follow Halls Fell) vs Doddick.

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Originally Posted by Adnan Khan

Pat is the OS maps not working on strava anymore ?

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Nope - http://veloviewer.com/mapFlipper

The Landscape and Outdoor option is better than Google but not as good as OS.

He was using the Bing Maps API and some licensing issue forced him to disable it.

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Originally Posted by Bob

In addition to Geoff's response there's the option of starting down the parachute then cutting left on a traverse line to pick up Hall's Fell below the tricky part. I think Baggins on here uses it.

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I used that, its a neat option but finding the traverse line is quite un-obvious at first sight, it's hidden by a couple of spurs you have to cross over at the right height after the initial drop down grass & scree. Like the parachute its a subtle line through some very steep and committing ground.

Great thanks very much for all the feedback folks.. the parachute option sounds like a bit of a risk so we will play safe with Hall's Fell or Doddick options.

I am sure the day will be an adventure :D

Billy

Thanks Pat.

Be carefull not to miss the right turn down onto Doddick (if you choose it over Halls fell) it is slightly hidden over a little brow and fairly easy to miss especially when looking for better running ground left of the track. Good luck.

Doddick is great running if you're not a natural on rock. You can enjoy the views as you descend. The only issue is the view includes Clough Head, the next climb

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Originally Posted by Alan Lucker

Be carefull not to miss the right turn down onto Doddick (if you choose it over Halls fell) it is slightly hidden over a little brow and fairly easy to miss especially when looking for better running ground left of the track. Good luck.

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Tell me about it.:o

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Tell me about it.:o

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First time down I went passed it. Worst thing was I was navigating a BG attempt. We had to back track up a bit when we noticed Doddick on the right.

I missed once but it was just a day out with friends on a very icy day and we were pleased to have missed and got down to Scales.

I went down Doddick on my winter round and even under ice and snow it was fast and runnable. It's my favourite way off. When about a third of the way down, look back up at the summit - it's an amazing view with blencathra looking huge and sheer from that angle.

Excellent thanks again for that advice guys.

It didn't seem really obvious on the Bob Graham web site but are you allowed to use GPS to tag tracks etc..? It does mention it is supposed to be a navigational challenge but a lot of runners use a navigator.

Yep, using a GPS is fine, the BG club have no problem with it. (The thing they do prohibit is physical marking of the route beforehand.)

As Elliptic says, GPS is fine, it is after all just another tool like map or compass. It does of course help if you can use it!

Marking the route though is definitely undesirable. With maps, GPS, route notes and the increasingly obvious nature of the route "on the ground" it's also totally unnecessary. The vast majority of the route is on existing paths so it's just those bits that aren't frequented by walkers that are of concern, the largest part of this is the Skiddaw - Great Calva - Mungrisdale Common section but even here there are now paths.

Thanks guys .. the weather doesn't look as optimal as we had hoped so we will be leaving it as late in the weekend as we can and using all the tools we can.

Thanks again
Billy

Best of luck with the weather. We were supposed to be camping in Lakeland at the weekend but have put it off now

How did it go Billy?

He only set off at midnight, i.e. 0000 Sunday

Any news on this Irish attempt?

Thanks so much for your help guys. Two of the three of us finished in 23:19.

We went down to Wasdale to watch some of the teams go through on Saturday and the conditions were totally brutal for those guys. We started at midnight on Saturday and while the first few hours were gusty and misty the wind dropped off quite quickly and turned into a perfect day later. If we hadn't posted here we wouldn't have considered Doddick which was a really good choice so a special thanks for that. I had tried the round a couple of years ago and Hall's Fell scared me .. failed that one.

We messed up a bit on Lords Rake missing the left hand scramble but most other bits seemed to work out even if we didn't maybe get exactly the optimal route. We seemed to pick up time on the last couple of sections.

I can entirely see why you guys are so enthusiastic about this great event and wonderful location.

Thanks again
Billy

Well done, Billy!

Saturday I went for a bike ride with my two sons in the White Peak, that was bad enough in the wind!

Excellent, it is great having the start flexiblity when on a self supported attempt.

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Originally Posted by billyreedni

Thanks so much for your help guys. Two of the three of us finished in 23:19.

We went down to Wasdale to watch some of the teams go through on Saturday and the conditions were totally brutal for those guys. We started at midnight on Saturday and while the first few hours were gusty and misty the wind dropped off quite quickly and turned into a perfect day later. If we hadn't posted here we wouldn't have considered Doddick which was a really good choice so a special thanks for that. I had tried the round a couple of years ago and Hall's Fell scared me .. failed that one.

We messed up a bit on Lords Rake missing the left hand scramble but most other bits seemed to work out even if we didn't maybe get exactly the optimal route. We seemed to pick up time on the last couple of sections.

I can entirely see why you guys are so enthusiastic about this great event and wonderful location.

Thanks again
Billy

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Well done guys. A sterling effort. Knowing all the little cuts and grassy descent lines makes a difference. Hats off for the way you did it.

Got this email off my brother in Dublin. Sounds like these lads done it a really traditional way, make it all the more impressive


I was speaking to Richard Nugent (Presisdent of IMRA)

Richard was actually with the two Irish guys that did the Bob Graham recently i.e. Greg Byrne and Bill Reed. Billy had an an unsuccesful attempt before that was the only expereince they had on the round.

They were weather watching for ages and on the Tuesday before decided to go for it. Four of them (with Billy's wife) drove over and the three lads headed on to do the BG with no support bar Billy's wife driving all over Cumbria meeting them at each transition point.

Richard was saying with no reccing they were going solely on map and compass. Richard pulled out after 36 summits with a thorn ligament while descending on a scree slope..[Great Gable?] The other two laps completed it in 23' 49"

Total height gain was well over 7000m since they did not know and so didn't take the best lines. They also had loads of scrambling which I suppose lots of that could have been avoided

I know Richard is a very extreme adventure racer all over Europe and I would suspect the other two are as well..

Richard was saying they were running really hard on the BG since they were loosing so much time because of the navigation..