Oldest extant race record

Afternoon, new to the forum but have used it on and off for a fair while. Hopefully someone knowledgeable on here can help me.
I am looking for the oldest surviving race record for a fell race in the UK which is still in existence.

The reason I ask, is that I organise an event up here in Scotland and the record for the race dates back to 1978. I'm pretty sure it's the oldest in Scotland but have a feeling there may be one or two in England/Wales/Northern Ireland that could be older.

For the record, Fred Reeves holds our event's record, from what I can gather from books and personal anecdotes he was a fairly impressive (fell) runner to say the least.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm keen to get folks to attempt to break the record next year, to that ends we will be, hopefully, putting up a decent amount of money for anyone that does so.

I would also be interested in any information on Fred (as long as he wouldn't mind), other than what's available in the usual publications, would like to write a wee biog on him in our programme next year.

Thanks for the help,
Andy

Andy Styan's Langdale record in 1977 still stands, he somehow managed to do it in 1 hour 55 mins.

The record for the Lantern Pike race, the 5 miler from the sheepdog trials, goes back to 1977.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

The record for the Lantern Pike race, the 5 miler from the sheepdog trials, goes back to 1977.

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As far as I am aware this is the oldest record in the FRA Calendar and is held by Ricky Wilde who also raced as an international track and cross-country runner which may help explain his speed on Cat. S races. He has also held the record for the Saddleworth race since 1978.

It is of note that both Saddleworth and Langdale (record held by Andy Styan since 1978) have been used several times over the years as English Championship races. This demonstrates the quality of the records as the best English fell runners have participated in the races for well over 30 years since the records were set.

Grasmere is 1978 too for Fred Reeves

I am intrigued, triguy: what is this mysterious event in Scotland that you organise?

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Originally Posted by triguy

Afternoon, new to the forum but have used it on and off for a fair while. Hopefully someone knowledgeable on here can help me.
I am looking for the oldest surviving race record for a fell race in the UK which is still in existence.

The reason I ask, is that I organise an event up here in Scotland and the record for the race dates back to 1978. I'm pretty sure it's the oldest in Scotland but have a feeling there may be one or two in England/Wales/Northern Ireland that could be older.

For the record, Fred Reeves holds our event's record, from what I can gather from books and personal anecdotes he was a fairly impressive (fell) runner to say the least.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm keen to get folks to attempt to break the record next year, to that ends we will be, hopefully, putting up a decent amount of money for anyone that does so.

I would also be interested in any information on Fred (as long as he wouldn't mind), other than what's available in the usual publications, would like to write a wee biog on him in our programme next year.

Thanks for the help,
Andy

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The record for Hallam Chase dates back to 1968 apparently: http://www.thehallamchase.org.uk


According to the race site, it's also the oldest continuously run fell race in the world, with records going back to 1862. I've not done the race but I believe it works on he basis of handicap (interval starts according to previous race times) & it's only open to members from South Yorkshire fell & road clubs. Most of this info is my paraphrasing from what I've read about the event. I think Steve Chilton wrote about it in 'It's a Hill, Get Over It!' - he posts on here from time to time & certainly knows more than me on this subject.

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Originally Posted by Sam W

The record for Hallam Chase dates back to 1968 apparently: http://www.thehallamchase.org.uk


According to the race site, it's also the oldest continuously run fell race in the world, with records going back to 1862. I've not done the race but I believe it works on he basis of handicap (interval starts according to previous race times) & it's only open to members from South Yorkshire fell & road clubs. Most of this info is my paraphrasing from what I've read about the event. I think Steve Chilton wrote about it in 'It's a Hill, Get Over It!' - he posts on here from time to time & certainly knows more than me on this subject.

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Bill Smith, in SMOTS, wrote in some detail about this event pp 242-244.

Thanks all, interesting to note some of the records, especially Andy Styan's.
No real intrigue, we organise the Ballater Highland Games hill race (2nd Thursday in August)
and wanted to highlight the longevity of the record and give a little info on Fred as he appears to have been a
fairly formidable runner back in the 70's & 80's.

Having done the race myself on numerous occasions and had some very good runners attempting it
(including my clubmate Robbie Simpson), we have yet to see the record fall. We are going to put up a decent sum
of money to see if we can tempt some superstars up to Royal Deeside for a wee holiday, you never know, it might
be worth your while.

cheers,
Andy

I was thinking about course records today after langdale. I think any one of today's top runners could take Andy styans record, but they are not motivated to do so. Any one of a pool of about ten could do it on a good day at the first time of asking. The issue is, and it's like the old saying, Matt didn't need to outrun Andy styan, he only needed to outrun brennan townshend.

I don't need to outrun the bear, I only need to outrun you.

I dunno.... 7mins is a feasible improvement for someone at my level to comprehend... but could someone of Matt Elkington or Brennan Townsend make that jump when they are already so highly-tuned... I don't want to speculate on what happened to Dan Haworth, there could have been injury or anything... but he gave Finlay Wild a race to the death earlier in the year, and came 7th in the National XC, and he didn't stay the pace on saturday, i think it was going hard at the front.

There's certainly people around with the potential... Carl Bell if he'd continued the same path after that fantastic summer (2018 or19?)

Jacob Adkin, will he return to the fells after destroying some long-time records in 2021...

Finlay Wild...

There's clearly some youngsters at junior level who are going to be serious guys in a couple of years.

Dan talked himself out of it on Saturday and beat himself mentally when Matt put the boot in on the rough traverse.

Everyone thought Styan's record was untouchable. Then in the 2016 champs race Sam Tosh dipped under 2h in a race that was descrobed to me as 'we just jogged along to Esk Hause then Sam got bored'. Everyone ran fast that day (I did 2:10). It was very good conditions udner foot.
Fin ran just outside 2h a few years ago in pretty bad conditions I understand.
So 2:02 for Matt in Saturday's very wet conditions is pretty good, and 2:24 (2 mins off the record) for Nicola was excellent.

The Men's record is probably gettable, but you need 3 weeks of dry beforehand and a full champs field with a few ringers in from Scotland to bulk up the push at the front. People thought Jura was unbeatable but the record's gone 3 times in ~8 years

From what I hear Langdale is now the oldest record, as I understand Lantern Pike (Ricky Wilde, same year as Langdale but a month or so earlier) may no longer exist as the Hayfield Sheepdog Trials have ceased to exist.

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Originally Posted by ba-ba

Everyone thought Styan's record was untouchable. Then in the 2016 champs race Sam Tosh dipped under 2h in a race that was described to me as 'we just jogged along to Esk Hause then Sam got bored'.

Fin ran just outside 2h a few years ago in pretty bad conditions I understand.

The Men's record is probably gettable, but you need 3 weeks of dry beforehand and a full champs field with a few ringers in from Scotland to bulk up the push at the front.

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Yes, of course Styan's record is beatable. If someone put up, say, £50,000 for the record I doubt it would take 45 years to be broken.

Any's record is what it is because on that day three other people were racing outright for the win, and not hanging around looking at each other, and the result was that Billy Bland finished only 14 seconds behind Andy with Alan McGee on 16 seconds.

Andy's account is in The Fellrunner Summer 2007 in which he also points out that the race was in September so presumably more likely to be dryer than now.

Finlay wild and Dan Haworth is a good example of what I'm on about. Two guys upping the ante over and over again, and the record went. Apparently after Roger bannister broke the 4m mile, every man and his dog cracked it.

Go on Graham...

Check down the back of the settee

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Yes, of course Styan's record is beatable. If someone put up, say, £50,000 for the record I doubt it would take 45 years to be broken.

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Originally Posted by eccentric

Go on Graham...

Check down the back of the settee

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Nah, there's 'ard times in Ilkley tha knows.:)

This got me thinking about all the old races I used to do on the North Yorks Moors.

There are a few old ones but Roseberry Topping is I think the oldest and that goes back to 1992 - Robin Bergstrand - 10:20.

Captain Cooks Race was 1991, again by Robin Bergstrand, but the course has been slightly shortened now so it cant be broken.

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Originally Posted by Croberts

This got me thinking about all the old races I used to do on the North Yorks Moors.

There are a few old ones but Roseberry Topping is I think the oldest and that goes back to 1992 - Robin Bergstrand - 10:20.

Captain Cooks Race was 1991, again by Robin Bergstrand, but the course has been slightly shortened now so it cant be broken.

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I used to love races on the NYM. And Dave was wonderful.

I once worked with Robin with the international teams and I know he was very pleased (if a little surprised) that his record had stood for so long.

However, it is a very long journey for a very short evening race to attract the very best short steep downhill runners when there are so many summer alternatives.

I have not run on the Topping for a few years but I seem to recall a lot of erosion and I wonder if the best line in Robin's day is still viable?

And I wondered what is the second fastest time?

Perhaps the Calendar should always print the second fastest time to show if the record is "readily breakable"
or "currently out of sight"!

There are 19 years worth of results on Esk Valley Fell Club Website. Looks like the fastest over that time was 11.11 by a junior called Jack Willis in 2014 who has also had a few other wins. Joe Blackett features a lot in the earlier races with quite a few times in the 11 minutes.

So doesnt look like anyone has been within 51 seconds of the record in the available results, though as you say I am sure if it was a weekend champs race it would probably go.

Jack Willis is a good triathlete now. In 2012 he ran 11:4x when he was 15. Kid went up like helium, thought I might have him on the descent but he could descend. My best was 12:16 after a day of househunting in 2018.

The 'chute' (direct route) is very loose and eroded and not fun to come down. I have worn lycra before to slide bits of it.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Yes, of course Styan's record is beatable. If someone put up, say, £50,000 for the record I doubt it would take 45 years to be broken.

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I've offered a cash prize for about the last 5 years for anyone beating the Shutlingsloe course record. Male or female. I think the female one is more beatable, but Jackie Lee was going well at the time.

I'll be surprised if the male record gets beaten in the next 20 years. Simon Bailey was English champion that year (2004) and conditions were good. He's had about 15 goes at beating his record since then.

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Originally Posted by noel

I've offered a cash prize for about the last 5 years for anyone beating the Shutlingsloe course record. Male or female. I think the female one is more beatable, but Jackie Lee was going well at the time.

I'll be surprised if the male record gets beaten in the next 20 years. Simon Bailey was English champion that year (2004) and conditions were good. He's had about 15 goes at beating his record since then.

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So you could put up £50,000 - for 19 years - and still sleep easy at night!

I've got a better idea. Transfer my consciousness into Matt Elkingtons body and I'll set a new record next year. I've got little time for cliques and old pals acts, I'll run the buggers ragged.